Vile vile Ann Summers product

[Dillytante]

Apologies if there has already been a thread on this.

Bj strap

I actually don't know what to say about this.

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Never heard of him.

Starwishes I imagine these women do like what they say they like. I have no reason to think otherwise.

I'm just saying that our likes and dislikes are influenced by all manner of things. It's the 'nothing happens in a vacuum' 'no man is an island' theory. It is one of the foundations of feminist thought and analysis.

Pretending this thread is only the first page ... I felt repulsed by the product picture and copy for the item in the OP. But then I thought - well, any man who pushes/pulls my head will not be getting the rest of his blowjob, and if he persists I will bite. Doesn't matter whether he uses an overpriced scarf or a bloody bulldozer, he's still the one getting the favour and I am in a position to exercise my options!

So. Obviously this object is never going to appear in my bedroom, but it's not actually a 'controlling' device so I retract my objection.

I think that the "thread" and it's original point here are getting a bit lost?

Well sex is a psychological thing too. And the society we live in has a big influence on our psyches. So I wouldn't say women who like forceful oral sex only think they do. But the liking must be psychologicl in nature rather thab biological ( no clit in throat)

I don't think it's denigratory to say a person is influenced bu society - how can we not be?

I think women do do things they might not really want too. In my day to avoid been called "frigid"

Perhaps this applies to men too. Dh feels ex partners of his asked for sexual acts he deeply felt uncomfortable with and lives to regret

If dh wasn't asking these women to indulge in certain acts then they surerly were only pleasing their selfs

LMAO - well i say, works both ways!!!

I don't have a problem with it, i like to consider myself a feminist, but i like to be sexually submissive, i actually quite like the idea. Just because a woman likes to be dominated in the bedroom doesn't mean she is a push over in real life.

Starwisher, I think the argument is that pornified and/or patriarchal culture leads women to objectify themselves. I think there is some truth in that, generally speaking. I believe people of any gender or sexuality could find themselves liking some sexual behaviours because it's been 'sold' to them, albeit in a roundabout way.

The major posters to this thread expend a lot more time & energy than me on the details of this issue. For myself, I can say I found things sexy, when younger, that were actually uncomfortable or put me in an unduly vulnerable situation. The discomfort & vulnerability were wound up in my self-perception and my perceptions of what was sexy about me.

I am sure this can happen to men, too.

garlic - why do you see a BJ as a favour? I struggle with this. I am very sexually adventurous but would never do something i am not comfortable with. If i didn't enjoy oral sex i woudlnt do it as a favour and my DP wouldnt ask me to as it wouldnt be a turn on if he knew i was getting nothing from it.

Starwisher people practice all manner of sexual acts for all manner of reasons.

For example it is not uncommon for women who have been victims of sexual violence to fantasise about rape and even act out rape fantasies.

Women become aroused by acting out these fantasies with a partner.

Patterns exist in human sexuality - patterns of internalization, trauma re-enactment, acting out of patriarchal values. Our sexuality is socialized, just like everything else we do - the fact that people may get off and experience orgasms and sexual pleasure does not change that.

Garlic whilst some people may indulge or experiment with sex, if they feel uncomfortable I would argue they don't actually like it then.

But if a grown woman chooses the same sexual act over and over again I would assume it was because she actually did like it

I'm sure sometimes people perform sexual acts purely for the partners enjoyment but as long as its not harmful physically or mentally is this a bad thing?

Didn't say I didn't like it, Goaway, I said it was a favour. As it is. Last time I looked, my clitoris wan't in my mouth.

sex is real life.

and viewing sex as a favour is the entire point of the thread. probably not dsults who've been around a bit and know what we like, but younger women especially who are taking in the cues of how they ought to be, what is normal, how to please boys.

I think that it is a big mistake to mix up fantasy with reality.

People have fantasised about all sorts of things forever. It doesn't mean that they want to act on them, in lots of fantasies it is the case that the person fantasising knows that they wouldn't enjoy it in real life. For some fantasies that is the point of them.

Pointing to people's fantasies and using them to justify certain things is a dodgy route to go down.

If people want to do things in real life that's up to them, but it's different to fantasy.

I think I might start a thread about what sex would be like if we didn't live in a patriarchy.

I suspect it would be much less of a Big Deal to Humanity than it currently is.

Sounds like an interesting thread beachcomber

I don't understand what the big deal is? If someone likes to give their partner that kinda control, and wants to buy it, then what is the problem?

If you don't have that kinda relationship, then you wouldn't be buying it in the first place?

I just realised that might sound sarcastic but I mean it genuinely!

I think the point is it is becoming more and more difficult for girls and women to discover what their real sexuality is (is that the right word).

More and more you see and hear things about women's pleasure stemming from pleasing the person they are having sex with. All the dressing up and how it makes women "feel sexy" - but the sexiness comes from the idea that you look sexy and the person who is looking at you feels desire. They are the ones who feel sexy, it's a reflected thing. When women have a wank put on a saucy nurse outfit on to do it (most of them anyway ) - that's a sort of performance aspect. Like this strap thing - some women like being controlled in that way - others are being told that they will "feel sexy" through using it - it's another reflection.

Don't know if that makes sense.

lazymonkeyface

Below is why I find it a big deal:

The message this sends out is just so dangerous I feel sickened.

The description reminds me of John Prescott's explanation for famously having
2 x jags "because Pauline doesn't like her hair being blown about" - Equally revolting MN's??

Referring to previous posters, I'd like to add that this product yes is hugely damaging to feminism, but much more destructive in terms of women having self-respect!!!

Finally, for those raising the issue of this being acceptable for those who enjoy submisssive play, I think the point is being missed. This is a very established, high-street chain whose market largely focuses on lingerie sales. For this reason many young and inexperienced young girls shop there.

This product shrieks of abuse,disrespect and DV to me, it being peddled in a high-street store is to me ill-advised in that it being sold there somehow encourages shoppers to view it as "the norm" and not for those who have sought out niche sex toys following years of exploration.

I am deeply uncomfortable at the demographic Ann Summers will be pushing this towards and saddened to think some young girl shopping on a Saturday is going to see this and consider it okay practice.

What a poor show Jacqueline Gold- you should be ashamed

IMO lazy, it's quite simply because Anne Summers is High Street and mainstream, and this particular item verges on S&M.
So should only be available on S&M websites.

My hair has never got messy enough to even consider tbh. It is repression disguised as helping us poor things out Sick

Missed a chunk out.

How can you explore and find what you like and grow into your sexuality if you are metaphorically presented with bum lube and a BJ strap when you are 16? If the images of sex that you (and your partners) are familiar with, are the images of porn?

I'm off out just now but I might start it later. It didn't sound sarcastic - I do however have reservations about whether MN is the place to attempt such a discussion (too public and not a feminist space).

I thought someone said earlier this would not be available in the shops, Internet only?