"Miss goes missing on French official forms" - let's do the same here!

[Alittlefeminist]

Hurray for French feminists who have pushed through a revision of women's titles: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/22/mademoiselle-removed-from-french-official-forms :)

Let's do the same!

Could people who don't understand why some other people object to the choice, read what SteamingNit wrote earlier:

For as long as some women insist on being addressed in a way which takes into account the fact that they've got married, the 'choice' of Ms cannot work as it was intended to ('I am a woman, as opposed to a Mr'), because all it can mean is 'I am a woman who won't tell you whether I'm married or not' - so we're STILL defined by marriage, because your choice is
Married Woman
Unmarried Woman
Woman who won't say whether she's married.

Beats me.

Unfortunately, those who want to keep their supposed "choice" are so unable to see the patriarchal view that this debate will rage for a long time. I have no doubt miss and mrs will fall into disuse but it will be our daughters who drive that.

I dont care what people call themselves in theory. I just wish all my "choices" weren't about whether I am married or not. I wish that even though I kept my own name, now that British airways know I am married they didn't feel it was necessary to change my details to Mrs Loving without discussing it with me. I wish that other women didn't feel that they need to make a one-sided change in their name in order to feel they are part of astride unit.

The thing is Rhino that I find that those who self identify as "non-feminists" tend to be the rudest ones on a thread such as this. I wonder why that is?

Well, in south Africa, where I am from originally, lots of people argued regularly that they weren't rascist but that as long as they treated "their" black people ok, it was fine to keep them separate, not allow them to be educated with white children or to do the same jobs or enjoy the same entertainment. And they would have been outraged at me trying to "force" my opinion on them and take away their "choice" over how they lived their lives.

I have a couple of gay lady friends who are married, are feminists and refer to themselves as Mrs & Mrs. There's no man in this equation - are they supressed and bowing down to patriarchy?

I don't think there are "they" and "us". We all have different opinions on different matters and I do agree with some and do disagree with some.

And I do self-identify as feminist. Sorry if it upsets some.

The difference bling is that your racist treat other people the way you find disgraceful. In my case now married to dh2 I want to be know as Mrs and before that I wanted to be know as Ms (whilst married to the dh1). Why is it similar??

"known" in both cases of course. sorry for typos

The issue isn't similar. I was referring to the concept of these so called " choices" people want. I think the concept of "choices" is intrinsically flawed here. Like the "choices" rascists attempted to maintain we're flawed.

The act of yelling g the works you are married is different to the fact that in every thing you do, an the way you define yourself in public is about marriage. If men also has titles to denote marriage, this debate would be moot. Just like if dh refused to wear a wedding ring, I would not wear one either.

Sorry! That should say "the act of telling the world you are married is not the issue".

IMvHO if you (as do I) want to achieve real equality for women at all areas we should fight at all levels for proper maternity pay for at least 6months and then affordable good quality childcare for all that would allow more women to continue their careers/study should they so desire. Dropping a title "Mrs" is a fucking red hearing and I can reasonably accuse all who fight for this to be blind tools of patriarchy.

Well I think "because unless you're burning your bra (or your mrs) with these people you're deluded." is pretty rude.

The fact that only women have to state whether they are married or not doesn't bother you?

Being married isn't a "dirty word", how ridiculous! Being asked to define your marital status when ordering paperclips is random and bizarre.

"Being asked to define your marital status when ordering paperclips is random and bizarre."

You do not have to if you do not want to. You can if you want. What is The Problem?

"Because that argument is shocking and in my opinion devalues the seriousness of racism."

That argument is silly. Racism is serious whatever twisted argument people make.

BlingLoving -- I agree with your points.

Yes, you can be Ms [DHSurname], to whoever asked it earlier.

MissWooWoo -- they are taking the piss out of the married woman's traditional title for political reasons.

Maryz, why should women announce in shorthand that they are married when there is no corresponding shorthand announcement for men?

If we are going to claim that taking away the choice of Miss, Mrs or Ms is removing some sort of right from women, then we should restore Master for boys and invent some title that conveys to the world that a man is married. Then men could also choose. They have been robbed of Master and denied the option to proclaim their married status to the world. Giving them a choice of three titles would only be fair, and equal.

I think there should be a box with the choice 'I'm With Stupid'.