not sure what to title this but it's to do with ejaculation

[YuleingFanjo]

and in particular a man ejaculating on a woman's face. Sorry - I feel awful writing it down.

I was talking to a friend last night, she is much nore sexually adventurous than I am and she was saying that she thought it was part of normal sexual behaviour, that most men found it a turn on and most people she knew thought it was normal.

I argued that it was something that came from porn, was not what I would call normal and there was no equivilant sexual 'thing' for a woman to do to a man. She said that women can 'gush' (I have never done this, maybe I am abnormal) or piss or poo (!) which I pointed out was a totally different thing. But is it?

I was trying to discuss it with her and point out that her sexual encounters are out of the norm, definitely aren't encounters within a loving relationship, and that ejaculating in someones's face is surely more about disrespect than anything else?

or am I wrong. I just find it really horrible and if anyone asked me to let them do so I would show them the door.

Soory - I hope I don't sound like some hairy trucker trying to get off on the whole thing, and I am not asking for personal experiences (I would prefer not to read them thanks) but more to discuss if I am right about the power/porn/disrespect thing...

yellow - when you say discussing is 'judging' and we're 'clutching our pearls', it feels like you're belittling and silencing, TBH.

Is it any better to say 'I hate semen'. I find that an odd attitude. More odd than wanting someone to cum all over you, to be honest!

I am definitely a feminist,. btw. I hate porn - I think it is damaging to women and warping male sexuality.

When people say that a certain act is demeaning and degrading, those of us who consider it to be a normal part of our sexual relationship are made to feel that we are dirty, shameful or wannabe porn-stars (nothing is further from the truth!)

If the OP and others on here don't want a man, albeit the man they love and share bodily fluids with, to come on their face, no-one will hold them down and force them to - I hope. If its not part of a loving relationship, I can't see that it is any more pervy than oral sex.

If anyone else doesn't see a problem with it, that doesn't mean its because we've been brainwashed by porn or downtrodden by abusive men, it just means we don't mind a bit of a mess and are prepared with a pile of tissues at the ready.

I can't see why it has to be an issue of feminism and women's rights, any more than using any other method of contraception, as that's all it is to me - a way to let him enjoy the moment without the worry of pregnancy.

I find it problematic that sonicrainboom thinks that "a lot of" women feel they have to do things they find degrading.

Yes, and I wish it wasn't so.
I hear it directly from teen girls, whom I have worked with. I see women discuss it on the internet. Me and my friends feel it ourselves. There is definitely an general attitude out there that you have to try various sexual acts despite not wanting it, otherwise you're a prude, that you should do it to keep your guy happy etc. Women and girls under a lot of pressure. And if you are an economically disadvantaged young women in porn, you're definitely under extreme pressure to do acts you probably don't want.

It's not something we should ignore, and to be worried about it is not "clutching pearls."

And when other people insist that anyone who objects to certain sex acts, or finds them demeaning, or mock us with phrases like 'clutching their pearls', those of us who don't like these sex acts feel as if we're wrong not to say yes to them and wrong to feel disturbed by them.

It's nice that you think no-one ever forces women to do things they don't want. But I'm not so wonderfully hopeful. We could stop discussing whether women working in the porn industry should be put in a position to get STIs in their eyes and throats, of course - then you wouldn't need to feel (shock horror!) like a 'wannabe porn star' ... and god forbid you feel like that.

I think you're getting it arse about face. People being coerced into sex acts is wrong, no matter what particular flavour that sex act is. And people should be empowered to say no.

However, people who like some sex act or another should not be silenced and made feel bad about liking whatever they like.

And you can like whatever you like whilst being perfectly aware that not everybody likes it, and also that probably some people are forced into those very acts - but it's people being coerced/forced into anything that should be addressed, not whether one sex act is more conductive to it than another and therefore shouldn't be liked.

You feel silenced and judged by Yellowraincoat - I get the feeling that she feels as silenced and judged in return.

WW, you really don't believe there's any systematic oppression of women, do you? You seem so sure all of this is just about what one person likes and another dislikes.

I just can't believe that myself. I wish I did, because it would be so comforting to just say 'oh, it's all fine, there's no issue here'. But I can't. I can't honestly believe that there's nothing untoward going on when a sex act becomes popular in porn, infects and harms women who work in porn, and then becomes popular in couples' relationships.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for liking what they like, but I can't pretend I don't see anything dodgy about, either.

'I think you're getting it arse about face. People being coerced into sex acts is wrong, no matter what particular flavour that sex act is. And people should be empowered to say no.

However, people who like some sex act or another should not be silenced and made feel bad about liking whatever they like.'

That's my point. And I dont think it is at odds with what you are saying, Jericho.

I very much DO believe that women are systematically oppressed, and that very many women are sexually exploited (I work with girls who have been trafficked or are being sexually exploited by gangs). I also believe (and see with my own eyes) the gross sexualisation and objectification of women in our society, and the horribly damaging effect porn has on both men and women (yes, women are the victims in real terms, but what is this doing to male sexuality? I dread to think).

However, I have to reconcile that with my own enjoyment of sex and 'adventurous nature' and the sexual relationship I have with my husband, which is far from vanilla, yet always, always mutually respectful. This is not a black and white issue. It is really easy for women who dont like sex, or prefer very 'safe' sex lives, to say that anything else has been designed by and for the pleasure of men. But what about women like me? Surely we have to have a voice.

I don't say that I don't believe that women are oppressed, quite the opposite really. That doesn't stop me from being open-minded about people's sexual likes and dislikes.

One person of any gender enjoying a good spanking has nothing to do with people who don't like it being coerced into it. It's just complete throwing out of the baby with the bathwater.

But when people are so vocal about how disgusting something is, how they must be coerced into participating, how porn is to "blame", it makes the person that enjoys an act feel that perhaps they are doing something "wrong" afterall.

The OP comes across as very judgemental of her friend's single lifestyle and the way in which she is conducting her sexual encounters. As long as she is having safe sex and is putting herself or anyone else at risk where is the problem. Sex doesn't just have a function in a "loving relationship", there is a physical need without the requirement of an emotional one.

Just because something has become popular in porn doesn't mean that people performing those acts should be viewed negatively. Perhaps the acts became popular in porn as a reflection of what people in real life are desiring?

So because some people are coerced into it (and let's face it, people are coerced into a lot of things that are part of a normal sex life), it's dodgy? That makes no sense.

Surely some time ago, blow jobs were seen as something a bit niche and odd. Now coming on a face is seen as odd by some.

It is not the act that is degrading but the relationships some women (and men) are in. What we need to worry about is that some women do not have the confidence to stand up to men, rather than acts themselves.

*is NOT putting anyone at risk.

Just to add -

Honestly? I think being disgusted by bodily fluids (not shit and piss, obviously, as they are waste and we are programmed to recoil at them) are prudish and a little bit disgusted by themselves, possibly?.

I have to be honest. I wouldnt have a relationship with a man who was disgusted by my vaginal fluids.

"It is not the act that is degrading but the relationships some women (and men) are in. What we need to worry about is that some women do not have the confidence to stand up to men, rather than acts themselves."

Exactly that.

Myname - sorry, I don't follow how that relates to what I said.

yellow - no, it's not dodgy because people are coerced into it. I find it suspect because it wasn't a part of mainstream sex for most people, until it was part of porn.

The act became popular in porn because porn needs a money shot. No-one seems to want to talk to the fact that women working in the porn industry are getting ill because of things like arse to mouth and ejaculations in their faces - why not? Do we just ignore it?

I agree MyNameIsNotSusan. That what I was getting at with clutching at pearls (though I'm sorry if I offended anyone by it.)

Men and women expel fluids during sex. There is nothing disgusting about that.

There's nothing wrong with being prudish. If you don't like sex, or you only like vanilla sex, that's fine. But I don't know why people get so judgemental about people who DO like sex. It doesn't mean they are being degraded or coerced.

Jericho do we really know what really wasn't part of mainstream sex, and what was simply not talked about?

Yeah, I don't doubt that porn popularises some things/gives people ideas, but I think there's also the thing that it's nowadays much easier to openly talk about sex.

I find lifting of taboo rather positive

I don't know anything about porn, Jericho. I didn't think we were talking about that.

Does it matter if it wasn't part of people's sex lives until porn? In some ways, I think it's good that people's sexual repertoire is expanding. For me, it's better than lying back and thinking of England. I understand that some people feel pressure and that that's not ok. But as I said, maybe we need to focus our attention on instilling confidence in women to be able to make the right choice for them.

WTF is 'mainstream sex'????

It doesnt exist. We don't know what people do behind closed doors - or didbefore the explosion of porn on the internet, where everything and anything is now viewable.

There were homosexuals in the bloody dark ages. Men were bumming each other, women were going down on each other. Sorry to be crude, but what is this mainstream sex you speak of ????

We should never think critically about anything related to sex ever because someone might like it and get personally offended.
In fact, we should never make feminist analysis about anything because someone might like it and get personally offended. Yep Jericho and company we better shut up!

Who has told you that sonicrainboom? Point to me EXACTLY where someone has said you should shut up? Or are you just flouncing because people disagree with you.

I'd say all of us on here are feminists - just because you take the harder line stance doesn't give you the right to claim the feminist title and suggest we're all misogynists.

As I stated at the begining I wanted to know if this general feeling that it was normal could have come from it being used in porn. Like a lot of things I think that the prevelance of it and the fact that my friend thinks it's normal behaviour means that we have been slowly socialised to believe so, but it does seem (to me at least) to be a lot to do with disrespect and power.

No where have I said that men and women expeling fluids is disgusting, what I wondered was is this kind of thing appeal to men because they find it a turn on to be disrespectful? yellowraincoat please don't assume I am saying people like you are disgusting for enjoying it. I am just asking how did my friend come to think it was normal?

Personally I do not think that this act is normal every day behaviour and I do not think that people who don't want to do it can only be having 'vanilla' sex, whatever that is.

How does anyone come to think anything's normal? What does that even mean?

To me, it's not disrespectful. I enjoy it and encourage it and therefore it's not disrespectful. If a man just assumed he could do it, or coerced me, that would be disrespectful, but it would be the assumption or coercion that would be disrespectful, not the act itself.

"what I wondered was is this kind of thing appeal to men because they find it a turn on to be disrespectful? "

What I wonder is why do you only ask the question why it appeals to men, but are not concerned why women might be into the same thing? So where is the question "why does it appeal to women?"