it's not Narnia, it's the Feminist Section!

[JaneMare]

i thought i'd start a thread for those of us who don't normally post in here, so we can chat without derailing (any further ) the thread about strip clubs.

shall we stay then?

Hang on, who pissed Pan off last time?

Pan, a rapist is a rapist whether tried or not. Do I have to go over the innocent until proven guilty thing again? If someone nicks your wallet out of the jacket you have slung over a chair and you see them run off, it is still a thief that you see run off, even if they don't get apprehended by the police. Innocent until proven guilty means that the prosecution ( the Crown) has to prove their case against you in a court of law beyond all reasonable doubt before you can have punishment inflicted against you for that crime. Hence the terrorism kerfuffles that have been going on.

Besides, one feminist does not speak for all. Just like one man does not speak for all men, despite numerous attempts on here and irl.

Stars - what you don't seem to be getting is that I'm not talking about radical feminism, but about feminist stances which I feel to be extreme. If they happen to be coming under the radical umbrella, fair enough, but it wasn't my intention to call radical feminism extremist. I couldn't as I don't know enough about what counts as radical and what as not, to make a judgement. The only one who continuously brings radical feminism into the argument, is you.

If you fail to see the examples Panfriedstardust mentions , or e.g. things like the idea that the depiction of female nudes in art is all about oppression as extreme than I can't change that. But stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said, please

What's extreme? And from what norm?

Tunip - I didn't say 'nasty feminists' at all. They were your words. But, no of course I can't 'link' to all of those statements I had indicated. To suggest I could is absurd, as it means hours of time finding threads which are lost in the archive of MN, if they are still there.
I don't know how long you have been around the FS, or how well you have read it, but if you had any reasonable experience you may not be so confident in your challenges.

But you keep describing radical feminism and using it to explain your "extremism".

Radicalism isn't extremism, and it's discrediting to keep insisting that it is. Which you've done, over and over.

And please see Turnip's post. I've yet to see a feminist on here provide any of those arguments. I've yet to see any feminist anywhere use those arguments. In fact, if they did, they'd be corrected.

He got told off quite a bit, by feminists, didn't he?

Should we be invoking PARD?

Pan, you used to be a fair minded poster on the feminist boards, and now not so much

and nope, I ain't kidding

I am giving my observation of the proceedings, just like wot you did

Oh dear, this is getting a bit 'personal' isn't it? I had posted about fairly clear-cut statements made on this section. If other posters on this thread wish to pretend they hadn't been said, or weren't around at the time, then fine. I was merely pointing out Stars post somewhere up thread was invalid, and said why.

Ok AF, - time for bed for me.

My post was invalid?

Really?

nice silencing tactics, btw. They'd work on someone else.

Oh, I'm on ignore.

Whatevs.

Stardust I'm sincerely confused - on the one hand you claim that any of the viewpoints I would call extreme actually don't exist on this board or would be challenged.

On the other hand you say that these viewpoints that I find extreme fall under radical Feminism.

Can you please make your mind up?

I can't be both arguing against a strawmen and existing concepts at the same time, can I?

WHAT DO YOU CLASSIFY AS EXTREME?

Can you hear me?

The thing is, believing that men and women should be equal, is an extremist viewpoint, once you start picking it apart.

< cocoa warming and hot water bottle warming the bed, so I have time..>

Widow - I think you are addressing another poster with your questions?
Basil - well, yes the male ego can be a fragile thing, but I don't see how that;s relevant here. Making stuff up? Okay, yes, you're right I have made it all up. Hope that satisfies?

Oh, OK. Sorry, WW.

"If you want to be a feminist you can't be in a heterosexual relationship, that vaginal intercourse is in itself problematic even if consensual, that wearing bras, make up, pretty shoes is wrong."

I'll have a PIV discussion with you if you approach it with an open mind. Given your response on the other thread, I'm not sure it's possible.There is a valid debate to be had there, if allowed.

Heterosexual relationships? Again, there is a valid discussion to be had about het relationships under the current norms. You have to listen, though.

Bras - again, interesting discussion has been had. Why don't men with bigger boobs than mine wear bras? Why are unfettered breasts offensive? Why are breats primarily seen as sexual and need to be encased in ex-sexed garements when their primary function is feeding?

Pretty shoes - non-starter. Heels (and the hateful term "killer heels") is a valid and interesting discussion. Why hobble ourselves? Why be in pain?

I don't think anyone is prescribing anything. Discussing a cultural norm is perfectly reasonable, isn't it? Argue the counter-argument if you like. But anti-women stuff is usually frowned upon, but I'm sure you'll agree with that given your equality of women stance.

If you're not picking apart the insidious nature of our culture, which kind of feminist from the list I posted above are you?

Ok, you posted bits of radical feminism. But you "extremified" them. Yes, Rad Fems have the "cheek" to discuss parts of society that, you know, the patriarchy would prefer us to leave the hell alone.

But hey, hows that any different to any other sociological analysis of our society? Is it just because it realises that women are oppressed that people don't like it? Or that we try to get to the bottom of why that oppression occurs? Or that we try and overturn it?

Wow,I've missed a good old argument here.Who'd have thought that people would have so much time to discuss Radical Feminism on Valentines Day?