it's not Narnia, it's the Feminist Section!

[JaneMare]

i thought i'd start a thread for those of us who don't normally post in here, so we can chat without derailing (any further ) the thread about strip clubs.

shall we stay then?

I'm probably going to show off my ridiculous ignorance here, but I've always wondered why it's called Feminism, and not something like Equalitarism, as in my naivety (i guess) I thought that what people were striving for was equalness between the sexes?

by 'the wrong type' of feminist

it certainly won't be me telling you that, Honey

Because feminines have to be brought to a level with masculines before they can be eqalines

Because "equal" could refer to all sorts of stuff, not just sex/gender?

What I want is equalness between the sexes, but apparently people who use "equalism" as a phrase tend to be weirdos who want to insist that men have it just as bad as women (and that feminism has made things worse for men), so if you use it you look like you are one of them.

I think that sexism/the patriarchy/etc is bad for women and bad for men, but not quite on the same scale.

I thin Equalitarism is something to do with horses.

THINK.

see, Ninja that's the sort of twisted thought i've never got to grips with, and why i call myself a 'feminist'

oppression because of someone's gender cannot, by definition, be experienced by more than one group, can it?

Depends if you think of oppression as a big general thing, or if you think that it is built up of many many small-medium-large-sized things, most of which are in one direction but some of which can be in the other direction.

i think oppression is many-layered/faceted

is this a test

Sexism is bad for men if they don't want to conform to the accepted gender norms.

The norms they are expected to conform to could be thought of as not as bad, but it doesn't mean that they are not being oppressed a bit.

I think the problem with equalism is that there is so much inequality - here are around the world - where do you start? What does it mean?

Feminists are focussing on the things that negatively impact on women here and around the world. It doesn't mean they don't care about other things - of course many people who identify as feminist also identify as having a certain political affiliation, being a disability rights activist, contributing to charities which help young people of both sexes in deprived areas or whatever it might be.

But for the the equalist idea is unfocussed and vague and there is always the difficulty that people will demand action on certain things and women's difficulties will get put to the end of the list again.

Fortunately feminism has a positive effect for other groups due to the things they are after. So working to eg break down strict gender roles if good for women but also for men who are constrained by them.

IMO anyway

Thanks JaneMare

Thanks SardineQ, you have put how I feel about feminism.

I consider myself a feminist. I dont think there is such a thing as the wrong type of feminist. We are all human beings with flaws and differences. It is like any other group, we are individuals striving for the same thing.

The way I feel about 'equalism' is:

show me it. Show me where the equalists march in the street, show me where the equalists get laws passed to protect the vulnerable, show me the prominent equalists talking about equal pay, paternity leave, stopping human trafficking.

Show me these equalists who are making the world so much better than the mean old feminists who probably don't shave and definitely hate men. Those nasty angry lezzers.

Oh, you can't? Because they don't exist?

Well then I'll stick with feminist, ta. That gets shit DONE.

I firmly believe that Patriarchy Hurts Men TOO and because PHMT I am a feminist. And my DH is a feminist. And my male friends are feminists. Because feminism is for everyone, and improves the world for everyone. If it starts with women, well, that's because women are the historically oppressed and subjugated gender. Liberate women and you liberate the world.

Equalism was used against the suffragettes. It only ever appears to silence feminists. Movements like socialism which positively campaign for equality still need strong pressure to include women. So we still need feminism

I believe the feminist label does happen to turn some people off though. I know men who for example wouldn't read the women's section in G2 as it is clearly labelled as not for them, whilst being very much against sexism and for equality.

I guess it's the same problem as with any other philosophy - if it gets too extremist it starts hurting its own cause.

So the very word "feminism" is extremist then, is it?

the word "feminist" only turns people off because our meeja and general culture has done such a great number on us all. "oh I'm anti-sexist but I'm not like those feminists who are angy/mean/bitter/shagless" - well, who says that they are all those perjorative things?

yeah, people who want to preserve the status quo, that's who.

I get that much more clearly now that I live in the US, where President Obama's (right-of-Cameron) policies are described as SOCIALIST! COMMUNIST! ANTI-AMERICAN! by the right wing here. I spent ages thinking, well, a bit of socialist thinking might repair this damaged, failing attempt at a welfare state... and then realised that over here "Socialist" is an insult on a par with "Stalinist" or "Nazi". Culturally over here, to call something 'socialist' is to insult, not describe it. That's how people act towards 'feminist' - well fine, but I think it can be reclaimed at a word. It's just a descriptor of a progressive movement, after all.

Remember, the word "queer" used to be an insult, a condemnation, and it was successfully reclaimed. The more 'normal' people that 'come out' as feminist, the faster it will be reclaimed. I'm feminist and I don't care who knows it.
And I wear makeup and have TWO men in this house wot I passionately adore, so ... erm... nyer?

WidowWadman, please, please, PLEASE show me the feminist extremists?

Show me where we commit hideous crimes against someone else because of their gender?

Show me where we incite violence against those who don't follow our way of life?

Show me ANY extreme feminist.

I'm sick of the feminist tag being labelled "extremist". Because, the fact of the matter is "extremist" is applied in order to demerit the feminist cause. In the same way "hysterical" was used to oppress women who dared to speak out in the 19th century. In the same way the straw feminist stereotype is used to paint us as evil, man hating, hairy lesbians. It's getting a bit fucking old.

For a long time I struggled with identifying as feminist because I was under the misapprehension it only denoted the more extreme fringes. I don't think I'm the only one.

I don't think it's wrong to state the idea that "Some people who support and are very much in favour of some feminist ideas are put off by the label "feminism", if only to stimulate discussion and examine how much one can agree or disagree with this statement, is it?

WHAT extreme fringes?

And if you say "radical" feminists, I am throwing the whole biscuit barrell at you.

I don't know that I am normal, but I will come out as feminist if you like :)

I'm a feminist, I have an extreme fringe.