Facebook supports rape?

[MotherPanda]

Have we a thread on this yet?

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/04/facebook-hate-speech-women-rape?newsfeed=true

I am really shocked.

yes kritiq. You got it. Mn won't let me log in on other account. Doesn't say I'm banned nor did I get an email so I made this

aliceliddell wrote;

I thought the point of the Ray Wyre quote was to indicate that rapists are a product of typical socialisation within our culture; a culture that produces rapists as part of its normal processes.

And my point was that if an 'expert' was going to be referenced, then surely it should be one who is reasonably beyond reproach. And Ray Wyre's history doesn't appear appear to be lillywhite. He certainly knew his stuff, he virtually invented the study of sex offenders in the UK. But his judgement seemed missing on occasions and he doesn't appear to have worried about securing academic qualifications or bothering with publishing in peer-reviewed journals too much.

If someone quoted say Sir Roy Meadow in the context of women's mental health I would object too; he certainly kniew his stuff, but...

there are two things here that everyone must think about.

the subject matter

how your response is delivered.

rhubarb has received some awful personal attarcks on this thread. it has been very rhubarb centred.

i can't say i am surpised though tbh. You can't have a debate in the feminist section. You just cant.

you have dominant posters with which if you don't agree, there are insinuations, twisting of words, deliberatley ignoring of others.

some of the posts to rhubarb have been absolutley vile.

just vile.

no apology though, no. you see i could clearly see someone saying " i disagree whioleheartedly with what you said rhubarb but i concede that infering you are a rape apologist is completely offensive. Whilst this is not an apology of my views on rape, i apologise for the use of this term." Rhubarb has apologised where she has felt she needed to.

but you can't apologise on mumsnet, ive told her before DO NOT APOLOGISE. There is no grace on mumsnet and good manners in a debate are practically non existant. Debate here is non existant. no one accepts your apology genuinley and they just use it as an excuse to prove you wrong.

its easier to upset your fellow woman who is arguing rape is wrong - just using a different argument.

its easier to come together and make this thread all about her, her views, her education, her posts, her words.

derailing indeed. well done. You have succeeded in being not very nice to one of your own.

have a gold star.

no, i'm not going to come back and explain, re - post, put something in quotes to prove my point so you can prove yours.

ive been here my furry friends and i#ve worn the t-shirt.

so why don't you reduce me to being a rape apologist rhubarb loving hippy who can't spell and move on.

no debate in feminism, well done feminists you silence so many people afraid of posting here.

I won't be afraid which is why i make a point of posting in this section.
see you at the xmas do in the flesh.

Didn't know about the other stuff. Do you think his credibility is now undermined on his views on sex offenders as a result? He is one voice among many with that view.

custardo, that comes across as yet another 'shut up and fuck off'. It's not very convincing that you pretend that teh feminists are shutting people up, when no-one ever stops posting here so far as I can see, except people who're being told they're nasty feminists.

It seemed to me that you were all saying pretty much the same thing.

I don't understand why it gets unpleasant. I'm not interested in finger pointing and blame, I just genuinely don't see the point. It doesn't further discussion or help understanding. It appears to me that everyone starts getting defensive and taking things personally, ironically, all the traits women are so often accused of.

But it did, as so often happens, look like ganging up as it was lots against one.

SardineQueen Wed 05-Oct-11 13:53:56
I just can't believe that you are saying, you are en expert in this field, rapists are like this, this and this, full stop.

What of all the women who have been raped by men who aren't like this, this and this?

They sound pretty easy to spot, so how can it be explained that women keep getting raped? Are they just a bit thick?

Message poster DontCallMeFrothyDragon Wed 05-Oct-11 13:55:31
Obviously, SQ, those women haven't been raped then... Well, not in rhubarb's eyes...

So accusing Rhubarb of saying these women haven't been raped isn't a nasty, personal attack then?

I read the thread up to this point and can't find anything suggesting rhubarb believes this, so it is a pretty nasty accusation to make, imo.

I am also wondering what was in the posts that have been deleted.

I think rape is a very interesting subject. I would like to discuss it without any of the angry and nasty crap.

Sometimes people are kind of feeling their way through and exploring what they think, that should be an ok thing to do.

It's a shame you two missed the part where Rhubarb called me a twunt.

Not. engaging further...

EllaDee - I have made no comment about Dittany on any thread.

It's also a shame that many, many people missed - or ignored - rhubarb's apology to a poster, earlier on in the thread.

Hully, come on, that's rubbish. You've made hundreds!

DontCallMe - as I said, I'm not interested in she said she said blaming. Lots against one is never a pretty sight.

yes, I saw the comment about dittany - again! - on the other thread and I'm sure you knew it'd be seen).

Would you like to apologise for that error and slur?

Oh look, don't bother.

Really, I'd love rational discourse, but hey ho.

Eh? No, why should I? Your comment on the 'Cheerio' thread is clearly about Dittany. I don't get why you'd say made 'no comment on any thread' - you have. Everyone knows you have. This is just surreal. I'm not a newbie btw - my name is an obvious homophone of my old one, and I've been on threads where you've made these comments. I can't understand what you're playing at.

These posts are the ones that I took issues with:

"Rapists do not rape because they can. They rape because they are socially disfunctional (does that sit better?) and cannot perform unless they feel in control and powerful. "

"I didn't just mean in the bedroom SQ - I meant in life. Rapists dominate women and use them to satisfy their own needs. Therefore in life rapists are usually social wankers who like to feel powerful."

"Rapists are social wankers who usually take advantage of other situations. "

I took issue with them, and they upset me, because they said "rapists are like this, this and this" with no room for the fact (disputed apparently) that many many rapists are not like this. So where does that leave you if your rapist does not fit the criteria above? It's black and white.

I think (hope?) the way I've posted on this thread has been fairly conciliatory and attempting to draw out points of agreement between the different positions. I can't really apologise for disagreeing with the argument that Rhubarb was initially putting forward though, even if that comes across as joining some kind of pile-in, as has been implied. There is no getting away from the fact that the way Rhubs was so insistent at the beginning, and appeared to be positioning herself as an expert who was utterly convinced of the machinations of a rapist's mind, was inflammatory and quite rude (in my opinion) to posters who took a different view. I think that set the tone, which has been quite disappointingly hostile, and could have been avoided from the beginning if absolute high dudgeon hadn't been the immediate response to a challenge.

Disagreeing with somebody's position on here should not be seen as an attack on the very fibre of their character and equated to a personal attack. Otherwise there is simply no point to a debate of any kind.

What is going on here hully?

If you regret the barneys with dittany fair enough - iff you don't, that's also your own business. But for goodness' sake ... it's ridiculous to pretend there haven't been these threads and these comments!

Elladee - are you quite well?

Well said BoF.