The departure of dittany

[Pan]

I only know that she has left, and in her post she didn't say much as to why, though some people can speculate and imagine why.

Quite a few days ago (last weekend I think) there were threads that pinpointed the lack of consideration that MNHQ has toward the sort of trolls that infest the FS section from time to time - different in nature and purpose to your average troll that infects MN from time to time.

It may well be that d. is in contact with regular posters whom she trusts. I don't know.

What I do know is that d. was a fabulous source of invigoration and illumination to a lot of posters, myself included, though we didn't always agree with her.

I would like a review from MNHQ of their current "talk guidlines" policy, in order that the FS is provided with a consideration that recognises the particular vulnerability that it experiences.

D. left for her own reasons - but this presents itself as a sort of 'test case' for MN to respond sensitively.

Would anyone agree and post here in support of this?

Rhubarb when one gets to the stage of reporting as many posts as one actually posts oneself it gets a bit wearing.

The feminist section is being trolled much much more than sections like chat or AIBU.

And when it is not being trolled it is having to justify its very existence.

I think it is unhelpful for people who say that they avoid the feminist section, to come onto this thread and tell everyone what is going on in here.

If you don't like this section and you don't post here how can you possibly know what is going on?

Rhubarb do you want to see the back of the relationships topic as well?

The life limited section?

The mental health section?

All the other support areas?

Or just feminism?

Is that a "hysterical feminists" reference, rhubarb?

Dorje - I've read Simon Baron-Cohen. I've also read Cordelia Fine. I don't think my mind is set in stone ... I just happen to disagree with you (and you've not really had time to see why, have you? Bit confused here).

rhubarb - come on, it's nothing to do with us being 'emotional' tender flowers, is it? It's about rape jokes and condoning underage sex by saying girls like it being quite vile.

Ok so the answer is that if women want to talk about feminism they have to hide away to do so? Fabulous.

I am really annoyed that so many people are coming onto this thread and having seen the back of Dittany are calling for - sorry suggesting - that the whole section be shut down.

Why does this bother people so much? It's bizarre.

SardineQueen, I said I did not post in here.
I am aware of what goes on, it's been mentioned as well as the SN section.
Neither did I say I don't like this section, I said I would not like it to be exclusively for feminists.

I'm sorry, but when you have a feminist section in a very famous and open forum like Mumsnet then you are going to attract men and women who oppose your views. Some of them do so just to have a laugh and wind you up and others actually hold those views.

Yes it can be wearing to take these people on all the time, I'm sure. But I am unsure what you want Mumsnet to do about it? As I said, this is a parenting website for parents, not a feminist website. As such all the topics are open to everyone and if they made an exception here then pretty soon all the other ones like SN, Dogs, The Book Club etc would all want the same to stop trolls and pisstakers going on there.

If you need a supportive thread then you really do need to seek out a feminist website where you can chat only with like-minded women (and perhaps even a few men).

Sardine, I have seen no such suggestions, it does nobody any good to start saying they have. that is a potential derailment if ever I saw one.

Pan, yes, you let yourself down, but more importantly, you let the FWR section down.

I think this site is great, in general. There are few places where you can have a good supportive chat with women and this is one of them. Sure, no website is totally 'safe'. But it's a numbers game IMO.

If I post on here trying to work through some issues, I might get a bit of trolling. And of course people may not be who they say. But, you know, if I discovered tomorrow that StewieGriffinsMom is actually a spotty twelve-year-old boy from Melbourne and MillyR is a single dad who likes absailing and picking his nose, it won't matter. Their advice would still have been excellent. And there would still be enough posters giving good advice and saying interesting things. It's silly to pretend any space on the net will ever be completely safe - just like you shouldn't think your local pub is totally safe so you don't have to watch your bag, just like you know someone could walk into your house if you leave the door open. But MN is pretty good. Saying we should just leave because we want to talk about emotional issues is daft IMO.

Because they don't like feminism and can't leave those who wish to discuss it alone. And I don't mean trolls, I mean some MN regulars. They don't seem to feel the need to pop into the style & beauty section and tell all the posters they are shallow and shouldn't care about clothes and makeup. They don't go into the craft bit and tell people they're wasting their time. I don't know if it threatens them on some level, but they just don't seem to be able to leave it alone.

Again you are being defensive and reading things into my posts that are not there SardineQueen.

I have not said that there should not be a feminists section.
I have said that it should not be exclusive.

And if you have posters who are going on about paedophilia then I suggest you report that to MNHQ who can access their IP address and pass that information onto the police who can then trace their address.

I did not say you were all emotional flowers, but you yourselves only want feminists posting on this section and I am suggesting that this section remains open for debate and perhaps those who have been severely hurt by men or who just want chat and support, have a website of their own.

LRD - totally agree. Better coming from you as I'm just seen as an intruder here who never posts and has no idea what is going on.

Rhubarb then why do you think that this is about people who oppose views and about people on the wind up?

It isn't.

Do you also want to see the other areas that are supportive shut down, or just the feminist section. Your idea that this website is for debate and discussion and not really for support is just wrong, hundreds of people get support on a range of topics here every week, some of them extremely sensitive.

I don't see why people are so quick to say, oh, don't expect trolls to go away, it's you who have to do all teh changing and maybe feel guilty that you're too 'emotional' - bollocks.

Saying you disagree is OK in part LRD, but it doesn't give me much to go on iyswim? What are your arguments, your points, you know.

I mean, we could all just post we disagree with each other "I disagree" and never discuss anything, just yodel from our hilltops. That's hardly the point of a discussion board.

loving this quote "Male privilige by me? snort." by Pan - Dude, that's for others to decide.

madamedefarge rhubarb has suggested that the feminist section move away from MN and set up as a private group somewhere else.

Love that image of SGM, LRD....

But ditto to what LRD said. This section in particular has helped me through a lot of issues that I had. I've had support here that I probably wouldn't have gotten IRL, due to my inability to talk face to face about my problems.

rhubarb, I'm not sure we're saying the same thing though. It's rubbish (sorry, but it is) to say we're all just too emotional and should go elsewhere for support. I'm not especially emotional about rape/child abuse. I'm lucky I've never been raped/abused like that. But I still object to it. And seeing it, it still makes me furious that a good space for discussion like MN is being spoilt.

No she didn't. She suggested if you wanted to protect the section from being open to all comers, there might be a virtue in having a closed forum elsewhere.

Yes. You're being defensive and if you're so sensitive perhaps you should go elsewhere.

SardineQueen - NO I HAVE NOT PLEASE READ MY WORDS VERY VERY SLOWLY AND VERY CAREFULLY AS YOU ARE GETTING ON MY TITS A BIT AND I HAVE WORK TO DO

Ok?

I have suggested - are you listening? - that the feminist section be left open to those who want to chat and debate and that those who want support and to chat only to other feminists, perhaps find a supportive group that is not open.

Perhaps if you stopped being so over defensive SardineQueen and actually read what people wrote instead of reading what you think they wrote, you could have a sensible discussion?

Dorje - could we do a separate thread? We did have one a while back but always good to do again. But basically, I found Fine convincing - that's pretty much it!