The departure of dittany

[Pan]

I only know that she has left, and in her post she didn't say much as to why, though some people can speculate and imagine why.

Quite a few days ago (last weekend I think) there were threads that pinpointed the lack of consideration that MNHQ has toward the sort of trolls that infest the FS section from time to time - different in nature and purpose to your average troll that infects MN from time to time.

It may well be that d. is in contact with regular posters whom she trusts. I don't know.

What I do know is that d. was a fabulous source of invigoration and illumination to a lot of posters, myself included, though we didn't always agree with her.

I would like a review from MNHQ of their current "talk guidlines" policy, in order that the FS is provided with a consideration that recognises the particular vulnerability that it experiences.

D. left for her own reasons - but this presents itself as a sort of 'test case' for MN to respond sensitively.

Would anyone agree and post here in support of this?

And it is not like this on the other areas I go in MN (in the news, AIBU, chat, food, politics). Not even a little bit.

Here

Oh and I agree with Pan. And think it is a bit pathetic that people who don't like Dittany read this OP, see she has left and see it as a good opportunity to put the boot in. How mature

^Cyber-stalking
Offensive PMs
A website set up to show up threads (mainly this section) to troll
People on other sites organising to troll here
Sock puppets
People who are banned repeatedly coming back under different names^

I can see Bob and I are not guilty of such things (I can't actually speak for Bob because I don't know 100% but he seems to have good intentions)

How we are trolls I don't know

The rape joke of edd's isn't on that thread edd linked to. It was deleted, but not after it upset a number of posters.

I can't remember the whole post, but part of it said "I could rape someone and get away with it" (sic)

i just get so tired of listening to men all the bloody time, i think. so when they all started spouting off on the feminist section, it was time to go.

I was a parody of privelege DCMFG. Doesn't matter now, I did apologise to those that were hurt. Can't move on? Your problem

Imagine a section of a free to all website called "conservatism", set up at the request of conservative posters to discuss the ins and outs of conservatism. Within a couple of minutes it would attract not just every brand of conservative, but all sorts of people, many of whom don't agree with some or all of the central tenets of conservatism.

The most radical right wingers would attract scathing comments from the most radical left wingers. They would also probably feel a bit miffed that their discussion of conservative thought kept getting derailed even by those liberals or left wingers who weren't intending to troll but simply disagreed.

The same would hold true of any site set up to discuss a topic which attracts a range of (sometimes radical) opinions. Either you limit access to a select few who basically agree and would rather not be challenged,, decide that comments that aren't conservative enough get deleted, or accept that this is what happens when such things are put up for public debate.

Obviously not all participants will agree on which direction to take.

Edd's rape joke was deleted after numerous posters reported it.

I see he has helpfully linked to the thread where he makes numerous posts about young teens liking sexual attention from men.

Anyway. When we mention trolls on this thread we aren't only talking about our current visitors - we are speaking about stuff that has been going on for some time and which has involved numerous techniques and visitors.

I agree with what SQ has posted here. To the point where I am currently going through old posts of mine that give any hint to my RL identity in order to have MN delete them. I'm furious that I am having to do this just because I post in feminism.

People asked, edd. And, IMO, that should have been an offence which saw you banned. But still.

Parodies are still jokes, so you still made a rape joke, and I think a lot of people will always remember you for that.Your sense of male entitlement thinks we're being "silly ickle wimminz" for still remembering it, and still using it to judge you. You've just proved that with your last comment.

Edd my post wasn't aimed at you. I'm not sure why you think it was

It was aimed at all the people who see threads like these and claim that people who post on feminism get upset if people disagree with them.

That is not what the problem is.

the rape 'joke' I saw was along the lines of...

I get paid more for doing the same work as a women
I can rape and not go to jail

And a load of other points about being a man. Shit parody/joke but not what is now being made out to be (I don't know if there was another one, but that is the one I saw him taken to task over)

This is all a bit ott isn't it?

The bigger Mumsnet gets, the more trolls you will get. If you don't want that then perhaps Netmums will do a feminist section?

Yes it is upsetting and annoying when you have posters whose sole purpose seems to be the derailment of threads and the bullying of posters. However that is all over the board and it's one reason I never post personal information now, because it has been and would be used against me.

Passive aggressive bullying has always been an issue on Mumsnet to try and force people out. On every thread, no matter what the topic.

I note with interest that there is a poster on this thread who never wanted men on Mumsnet anyway, despite the fact that it is a parenting site for parents.

And that's what it boils down to ultimately. This is not a feminist website. It is a parenting website. It is open to all; mums, dads, grandparents, carers, pregnant women, dads-to-be, step-parents etc.

I fail to see what else MNHQ can do about trolls. The good thing about Mumsnet was always that it wasn't strictly moderation. You could swear, your threads weren't moved for being in the wrong place, you could talk about bumsex even. This was liberating for lots of parents who just wanted to be treated like adults. Now you want to limit a thread so that it is only open to feminists?

In the same way that I would find a working mans club distasteful and offensive, I would find a selective thread offensive. I may never want to post in feminism, but I have the choice available for me and that is important.

I'm sorry that you feel inundated with trolls and time-wasters, but that's what we all have to put up with on every thread, it's not exclusive to feminism. And I'm sorry if Dittany has gone, she was a long time poster. I disagreed with her on many things which is largely why I keep out of the feminism topics, because I do disagree with many theories and practices but I applaud anyone who is willing to stand up for what they believe in and so I had every respect for her.
However she is not the first to leave Mumsnet and she won't be the last. Sometimes you discover that it's no longer the cosy place it used to be and either you have to change your expectations and accept the evolution or you leave and find something else.

And I speak as someone who has done both.

Of course each, what was said in that thread was all I had to say. No trolling, just opinion. Not going to justify myself here, it's up to you to read how you feel like reading it

MsCellophane, yes that's the one that I'm referring to.

It's troublesome, because I (and I suspect a few other posters) saw a threat in that. Put that down to my PTSD, dypraxia, or whatever, but when someone says they "could" or "can" do something, I tend to take that as a I would or I will given the chance.

Yeah blugrass and when people come on that board and accuse the conservatives of being insane, emotionally damaged, full of hate, stalkers, trolls, call them absolute scum, etc will you think that is ok?

Is that what you call debate and disagreement?

There are people who have left the feminist section because they are victims of abuse and they have had their views rubbished because of that.

FUCK THAT for acceptable behaviour in a so called feminist section.

Yeah, let's joke about rape to rape victims and slag off people who have suffered abuse. In fact let's act like those abusers!

If you read my other posts on other subject FrothyDragon you'd see that it's not the case

Also, there is the report button both for PMs and for posts. MNHQ have and will carry on banning posters. Yes you can change your email and re-register, but you'd only be banned again and pretty soon they will tire of it.

They could ban IP addresses which might be more effective but not sure if that is a possibility.

And of course not everyone accused of being a troll is a troll. An offensive person isn't necessarily doing it to wind people up. You cannot just hide a racist, they are still there. You either challenge them or you ignore them, but banning them is a bit like sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending they don't exist.

I thought feminism set out to challenge male dominance, not just to chat and agree amongst themselves?

You are a troll when you do what a troll does edd. Simples.

LRD I see your mind is set in stone and are impervious to evidence from very well qualified scientists and Developmental Psychopathologists and Psychiatry researchers. That's OK, but I don't know why you are on a discussion board if your mind is made up and you are ignoring the evidence... why not have a rant in private? It would save me time

If you change your mind(?) and peep out of your trench, you might like to look at the published - and peer reviewed - work this world renown researcher on gender differences in brain development has done Simon Baron-Cohen? Give it a whirl.. you never know, it might be fun..

Spot on SardineQueen - this section is a very different country, and IMO we need mods here.

Edd. You just made me read 22 pages in which your rape "joke" did not feature, just your pretty gross one about young teenage girls welcoming attention from older men.

yes I rather let myself down there when I referred to Bob in the manner I did. Moreover, I let myself down by engaging with a FS-specific-thread-disrupting-internet-sort-of-being. (obv. can't use the 't' word.)

Male privilige by me? snort.

I can see this is becoming an emotional thread so I shall take my leave. I can only say that other mumsnetters have experienced the same levels of personal abuse and sometimes views are so abhorrent that you don't want to hear them.

May I suggest that if you are emotionally vulnerable and want only support, that Mumsnet, as open as it is, is not the right website to be? This website is more about challenging viewpoints and taking these people to task. Which is what Dittany did. But that gets tiring when you are constantly at it, so I really do think that you need a supportive website for yourselves, a place of refuge that you can go to. It's not hard to set up such a website. Something to consider?