You don't have to be feminist to post here, but it helps...

[MrsReasonable]

I've noticed that whenever a 'non-feminist' view is brought up, there are occasionally some posts along the lines of 'this is a feminist board, why come here if you aren't...', etc.

Genuine question - is this a feminist board, or a board about feminism? Obviously the majority of posters are feminist, but I'm not sure whether that is because feminists (surprise surprise) like discussing feminism, or because it is seen as a feminist 'safe haven'?

GarlicNutter - your post at 22:49 is spot on. Also, trust me compared to some of the derailing and sidestepping that goes on in other feminist spaces, we're not too bad here.

But what do you mean by that MrsC?

As I said before, much of what is called "bullying" on this board, is simply lots of posters telling one poster that s/he's wrong. And that poster being unable to back up their opinion with any rational argument and so stropping off muttering about being bullied.

dittany Sun 28-Aug-11 18:31:55
Took me about 45 seconds custardo.

That's just not true, i thought the thread might get deleted and copied my own posts into a more permanant format so i could refer to them verbatim if this happened.

it took quite some time.

that you would do that makes me uncomfortable

that you would do that out of context and avoid my questions leaves me uncomfortable.

Yes, garlic. Just as you yourself has said Herebe women who identify as sympathetic to feminism or feminist may hold culturally absorbed anti-feminist views as they have never considered these views deeply. To, bluntly and aggressively, call them that may be factually accurate but quite shocking and hurtful to genuine posters trying to find their way.

Oh have just re read your post GN and I have to say, the sentiment that a woman is ever responsilbe or partly responsible for her own rape, is actually anti-feminist, you just can't get round that. The person saying it may not be an anti feminist, but the sentiment most certainly is anti feminist, how can it not be? It is on a par with women should be barefoot in the kitchen, of course it is.

But people don't call them that.

Tehy call their opinions that.

And I'm sorry but there is a difference between callign someone's opinion something and calling someone something. Hate the sin, love the sinner, it's not a difficult concept.

There is bullying on this thread, Lenin does not deserve the treatment she is getting and I for one am very uncomfortable

Who are you accusing of bullying lenin MrsC?

Are you feeling bullied Lenin?

Yes there is a difference but it can be very easy to confuse the two. For both the accuser and the accused. Not everyone is as eloquent at expressing themselves with the written word as the next person (I for one am always beig misunderstood - due to my inability to accurately explain myself).

I do love this secton on MN though and actually don't think that it is the 'nest of vipers' some would like to make it out to be.

Just sort of trying to explain why it might be nice to be a little gentle sometimes. Or why genuine posters may take offense. Not that anyone should back down or shut up, not at all. Just perhaps be a sensitive to why?

Oh, I don't know....

I'm tying myself in knots here.

LeBOF Sun 28-Aug-11 16:07:52

LOL! so sorry - i'm so preoccupied in a 'HOW VERY DARE YOU" firefighting way, i didn't engage in your wonderful post and what is a great discussion

YES YES i agree wholeheartedly whith everythin you say, except i am not willing to do - what i see - as giving up my socio political identity just so feminists can can identify with me and i am not lumped into a woman hating lump with other women hating political ideological groups.

i think the onus is on the finger pointer. if you point at me and say 'you are not with us ergo you are against us' it is you who is ignorant, not me.

this section has very interesting discussions at times, but it is almost impossible to put an opposing viewpoint forward.

especially if you openly and honestly define yourself as a non feminist. Becuase people mix that up with 'anti' feminist - sometimes its an accident, sometimes it is ignorance and sometimes its just deliberate twisting.

but i willnot say that i am a feminist, just do i fit in with everyone elses view of who i should be more easily.

yes, there is inequality between men and women, and i will be right there chanting about it, but all the while know that i believe the ROOT cause of the inequality is not men or patriarchy, the root cause is capitalism.

dittany

Pretty much the whole world believes that women and girls lie about rape, pretty much the whole world believes the problem with domestic violence is just that the woman who is being beaten hasn't left yet, pretty much the whole world thinks that single mothers should be stigmatised, pretty much the whole world thinks rape victims must have been asking for it in some way, pretty much the whole world thinks it's "insane" to even examine PIV sex from a feminist point of view and look at power dynamics within it, pretty much the whole world thinks it's fine for men to use pornography and buy and sell women for sex.

I am really surprised that you believe that to be true.
I do not know a single individual, of either gender, who believes all of that.

I'm not a feminist, but I'm interested in what feminists believe.
If you don't want people like me here... largely, that's tough.

I think a purely feminist view of societal transactions is limited, but highlights a lot of issues relating to power within society. Lots of challenging stuff to learn from here, but surely you expect some of the posters to be questioned on some of the positions that they hold?

OK fair enough and I agree that emotive terms shouldn't be bandied about with gay abandon.

But again, I come back to my impression (and I accept that it's just an impression and I'm biassed) that when these terms are used, the posters using them have come to the end of their tether and are totally exasperated.

I feel that a lot of persistent disagreement and refusal to back down gets labelled as bullying on MN generally, and here in particular. But it very seldom is.

You have to expect a range of views, but it's reasonable to assume that on these boards they should all be broadly feminist. On the rest of the boards, fine- life there is like a box of nurofen plus: you never know what you're going to get.

BOF

Oh good I'm glad 2 of my favourite posters have made up.

I think it is uncomfortable when things get very personal but sometimes it has to to clear the air, otherwise it hangs there and follows people from thread to thread.

Yes I know what you're saying Lenin, but tbh I think there are loads of people who really don't need ammunition - they'd whine if we were all Mother Teresa and we rolled out the red carpet for them every time they posted (not that MT was big on red carpets but YKWIM)