You don't have to be feminist to post here, but it helps...

[MrsReasonable]

I've noticed that whenever a 'non-feminist' view is brought up, there are occasionally some posts along the lines of 'this is a feminist board, why come here if you aren't...', etc.

Genuine question - is this a feminist board, or a board about feminism? Obviously the majority of posters are feminist, but I'm not sure whether that is because feminists (surprise surprise) like discussing feminism, or because it is seen as a feminist 'safe haven'?

But TBH MrsC, I do think a lot of people who hold anti-feminist views, aren't aware that they hhold them.

It takes a few threads and teasing out ideas, to be aware of where you're coming from.

I look back at some of the views I held a decade or so ago and at the time I would have been ouitraged if someone had accusd me of being anti-feminist. Iw ould have not necessarily identified as a feminist, but I would have considered myself broadly sympathetic to feminist ideas. That didn't stop me holding anti feminist ideas though.

I do think people often get mixed up between being called an anti feminist, and having their ideas described as anti feminist as well. That's always a big issue round here.

I agree, Goth, and I think that's the section's strength. This board is a part of Mumsnet; the more crossover there is between it and other boards (already happening), the more women get the opportunity to consider their lives in a feminist light.

I strongly supported a Feminism section, dittany, because I hoped it would make feminist ideas more accessible to a wider audience. I think it's working :)
I wouldn't have supported it as a one-topic board for feminists to agree with each other. I seem to recall there were doubts about whether the board would channel all feminist thought away from the more general topics and create a minority ghetto. It would be a big mistake to pursue that direction at the expense of the bigger platform.

Right, I'm going to stick my neck in here. I identify as a feminist BUT I am an immature one. As in, I haven't read very widely, or engaged that much with, or thought that deeply about various issues that get discussed on here. And I would like to. There are times when I want to join in the conversation but where I am clearly not as well informed as other posters, should I just shut-up?

I appreciate that there are a million places on the web to go and read basic feminist theory, and would welcome being directed to them if I'm not 'getting' an argument or discussion but in certain instances, it really helps being able to discuss my 'starting point' and develop my thoughts from there. It isn't set in stone (yet ) and I find it a lot more helpful to be able to talk about it than to just read threads.

Even so, there are times I have felt too intimidated to post.

(Massively x-post - had to settle DS who fell put of bed)

That may be true Lenin, but tbh if something is genuinely, unavoidably anti-feminist, does that mean that cannot be pointed out because it's too hot to handle?

it really helps being able to discuss my 'starting point' and develop my thoughts from there - yes, very well put, MBJ.

If you're roundly told that you're wrong and nobody bothers to listen to what you said and why, you tend to slink/storm/flounce off with your nose out of joint. Doesn't help much with the development of ideas, really.

Therealmbj - I really honestly don't think anyone should be nervous about posting on here if they are doing so in the spirit of asking questions/ wrestling with ideas/ pursuing an issue.

People get short shrift when they're either personally insulting to specific posters or the regulars as a group, when they say absolutely wrong things (there was one this evening on a thread where someone asserted that feminists here sneer at women who wear make up and high heels - bollocks do they, but posters feel free to simply lie like that and expect us to not get annoyed with that sort of slander) or when they start telling us that we're all mad, shouldn't be discussing it,e tc.

I'm getting deja vu again...

The romeo/juliet thread - sorry but there was much nastiness long before the truth of the original case came out. The thread had moved into discussing boy/girls and underage sex - not the case that was linked. to say that people were happy about a 15 year old being raped is outrageous. Not one did

This is where people see a problem - things are twisted all the time

Your vendetta against Lenin is childish and nasty - she was one person trying to calm

Why can't the feminist section just follow the mumsnet rules- report suspicious posters and don't engage?

HB: if something is genuinely, unavoidably anti-feminist, does that mean that cannot be pointed out?

The only genuinely anti-feminist statement that merits such treatment is one along the lines of "Women should stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen." You don't get that here - well, not much anyway - what you tend to get is women re-stating a belief that they have absorbed as fact. For eg, being drunk in a miniskirt makes you partially responsible for your own rape. To dismiss that statement aggressively as anti-feminist is irrational, because the poster has never framed the issue as a feminist one. Therefore, she can't be being "anti feminist".

Far better to acknowledge the prevalence of the myth and break it down.

So it gets repetitive. So what? You wouldn't tell a poster in an abusive relationship to fuck off and google it, there's already been 1,999 threads like hers.
To my mind, the example of the rape myth is the exact equivalent.

I believe bullying is anti feminist, hmm how ironic

Oh I agree with that GN.

But I'm referring to posts where the poster has had several pointers as to whatever it is s/he is saying is wrong, been linked to sites which show the stats, had articles which quote research, etc etc. and still goes on and on with the first post, obviously not willing to listen to any amount of evidence-backed argument. At that point, it becomes clear that the poster isn't actually interested in discussing the issue, just in sticking to his / her original, wrong-headed point, all the time declaring his/ her massive commitment to feminism, while pointing out that his/ her version of feminism is much more reasonable, realistic and altogether better than everyone else's.

It's at that point I lose patience...