Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

I think Anon sounds like she needs help, but if her internal doesn't fit with external world then perhaps she's better off disengaging.

Muslims don't deny men their appearance, they protect men from their lust...not the same thing at all. Unless you've read a new version of the Koran that I've never seen.

I don't deny the crimes that men have committed as part of the patriarchy or individually.....I have an issue with people talking about 'men' and including all men, my men, in those accusations. I too talk about real risk, men are more likely to.... but not men....

So male nursery workers are 60 times more likely to abuse a child in their care, but not that male nursery workers abuse children.

Crapola, feminism is made up of lots of different women, with lots of different viewpoints. If another woman wants to avoid men, WTF has it got to do with you that you feel the need to insist she has contact with men and stops making a fuss, or gets 'fixed' because there must be something wrong with her?

I am with scottishmummy entirely.

I see people as PEOPLE, not as men and women. some men I like and love, some women and some I loathe.

I agree with this statement, " the myth of sisterhood is all us wimmin would harmoniously get along.because we are goddesses and women. finally we'd be free to be bullied, subjugated and put down and put down by other women instead of men.what a triumph!"

I have seen some truly sickening spite from women to women, IRL and in particular on the internet in forums like this one. The level of bullying and bitching have seen over the years is enough to convince me that Hell may not, in fact, be other people but other women.

Well, I wouldn't worry - you've probably not really got the right attitude for entry into a separatist community but I doubt any of us will be dragged off into one set up by a separatist feminist government any time soon.

But I am curious as to why anyone would think this discussion applies to their sons??? You mentioned rapists - you made that connection. Is it yet again this idea that sons have to be protected from being perceived as potential rapists - I don't understand that. Surely, the focus should be on ensuring that sons (and daughters) are taught about sex/consent, etc. That's responsible parenting. Responsible parenting isn't getting worked up about your children being sees as potential rapists - anyone fretting about that should maybe be the one getting counselling. (If we want to start suggesting people should be getting 'help'.)

If someone wants to make a choice that is prejudiced fine, but at least have the honesty to name it.

floy....When someone freely and without challenge makes statements about 'men' I feel compelled to correct them. For me this is not feminism, it's the awful thing that some feminists get accused of by certain twatty men on that awful forum. I admire feminists and do not think separatist feminists are feminists at all.

"Add message | Report | Message poster CrapolaDeVille Sat 16-Jul-11 14:40:52
I think Anon sounds like she needs help, but if her internal doesn't fit with external world then perhaps she's better off disengaging.

Muslims don't deny men their appearance, they protect men from their lust...not the same thing at all. Unless you've read a new version of the Koran that I've never seen."

Nice generalisation there. I as a muslim feminist choose to deny men my apppearance. Id do it whatever my religion. My decision and part of my attempt at seperatism. And its up to me if i choose to remove males from my life, which i do, apart from my sons.

This is a really thought provoking thread, I'm enjoying it.

Riven, may I ask how you remove men? I am not a separatist so have many men in my life both on a regular and casual basis and husband, sons, father, nephews etc.

But I deal with men daily in a work situation, domestically - plumbers, painters, farmers etc are all men that I deal with. My children have male teachers.

Riven, the appearance thing is interesting too. I enjoy being considered attractive ( by men and women) and I know that my girl friends and I dress as much, if not more, for each other than the men in our lives.

I attempt to find female plumbers, builders etc dds teachers are all vemale, as are her carers.
But its not 100% cos thats impossible but it makes me more comfortable. Having had pretty bad experiences at the hands of men, yes, i want to avoid them. For my own co fort.

Someone has the right to talk about their own experience without being rudely dismissed just because you have a different world view. I could try and analyse why you would write 'I'm a woman, more importantly I'm a mother' in the context of a political discussion on a feminist board full of mothers but I wouldn't because I would only be being cheeky.

The idea of attacking branches of feminism for discriminating against men is absurd and can only be justified if you distort the way power functions in society. Once the patriarchy has been dismantled and we have full gender equality in society, then you could argue that all feminists should regard all men benevolently and they should be included in all feminst structures/debate, etc. on an equal footing with women. And we can all celebrate when that happens. But in the meantime, your sons will benefit from the partiarchy in lots of ways, so condemning annon and some feminist thinking (which was simply being politely and curiously discussed here before you started attacking a poster) seems a little unnecessary to me.

Having a greater ability to empathise with others who have had terrible life experiences (even if you don't like their politics) might be a skill worth us all passing onto our children.

Are you now divorced Riven?

Forgot about dh
he is around at the moment.

Floy. I have two daughters also.

I consider your comments about my children to be personal, please refrain. I can empathise perfectly, you have no idea about my own frame of reference. But condemning a whole gender upon Tue behaviour of a few probably poorly educated and impoverished twats is irrational.

I love that you forgot

Feminism is not about fighting prejudice with prejudice is it?

Some of it is about being comfortable day to day. Until sexist attitudes are history i wont feel comfortable around men. Hardly affectsthe turn of the planet does it?
Luckily i am ina position of being able to choose where to go and what to do.

CDV it's not at all right to fight prejudice with prejudice - and no one is saying that. What I tried to say with all my links, and clearly didn't manage is that the thing is, we're not just facing prejudice.

As you say yourself, individual men can be lovely feminist-allied people. We're fighting oppression - systematic predjudice, backed up by big institutions (yes, even ones which are trying to reform now) over centuries and centuries.

Women saying they want to avoid men because even the loveliest men deals with male privilege, and therefore some women-only spaces can be a comfort - this is NOT the same power dynamic as two thousand (plus!) years of patriarchal oppression of women.

I have wondered if its possible for true seperatism to exist. Given schools, medical needs, bus drivers. Everything really. How far can it be taken?

Fine, I am bowing out anyway. I can't abide this more prejudiced side of feminism anyway....where the premise is that all men are instruments of the patriarchy. It may bore you SAF but this is why people associate feminists with misandry.

Women living women only lives is not feminist at all.

good idea Saf.
im very interested to hear what riven has to say.
rivens set up sounds very simmallar to mine-ecept im not married to a man.
ha-this could be the reason im getting it in the neck eh!
do you get predujuice because of the way you live riven?
do you find it easy to live the way you do?
what problems do you come across?

Very few in real life anon. Only on mumsnet
i rl i have no problems making sure dds carers are female. Finding women plumbers isnt hard. If im home alone during the day i dont answer the door if its a man. Dh deals with the hoist man and wheelchair man.
Works for me. I only socialise with women and have no male friends. And no, i dont feel im missing anything.
But its not 100%. im sat here watching 'Angel'. No objevtions to watching films and TV. Do seperatists take it that far?