Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

I don't really see what this has to do with separatism - can you explain?

Sorry, posting again but I am just utterly confusing ... you mention 'your crazy notions that everyone should put their children in daycare to keep their options open' - whose crazy notions? Who said that?

Saying that caring for children needs to be properly valued in our society so people can do it without being out of pocket and can access it without being out of pocket is not the same as saying that everyone needs to put their children in daycare.

... TPP I'm not sure what's going on, here, but I don't see a lot of hypocrisy or discrimination in saying that a parent has to be prepared to do it alone if the worst should happen (or, in the case of escaping an abusive partner, the best, really).

No one is saying you shouldn't be a SAHM. I'm sad you think nurseries are horrible places, because I know some lovely ones and I think DS gets a lot out of his- but hey, I'm not judging your child-rearing choices. I think every family works out what works for them.

LRD....I was posting to SaF, sorry for the confusion. She says that unless a woman can do it alone she shouldn't have children......I think that's barmy. Hardly anyone I know can do it alone, they all require an economic crutch of some sort. Blackcurrants, SaF repeats her mantra that children are better off w/o fathers. It's pretty damned annoying.

No need to apologize - I was confused because I didn't understand that to be what SaF was saying, either. But I may be wrong.

For me, the point is that, yes, at the moment, it is pretty hard to be a single parent, perhaps especially a single mum. This is partly because childcare isn't properly valued by our society. That needs to change. You're saying 'but this is barmy', because you're looking at the current situation that has not yet changed.

As regards fathers - I don't personally think children are 'better off' without fathers, but there's no evidence children of lesbian parents do worse (in fact they may be doing better) than children of male/female couples - so evidently children do not need a father in the way we used to think they did. They do need economic support, but the best thing to do imo is to work out how to get that for all children, regardless of who their parents are, rather than to blame parents for the kind of relationship they're in (I'm not suggesting you are trying to do that, btw, just saying it because our society at the moment often does blame parents).

Rubbish SAf, and you know it. You said that because I relied upon my husband to allow my choice to be a SAHM that "if you're not ready to do it on your own if you have to then you're not ready to be a parent imho."

Your comment was directly in connection to mine, so you can pretend you didn't mean it if you like, but I know exactly waht you meant. You go on to talk about fragile, dependent women..... I'm neither fragile or exclusively dependent, my husband depends on me too. And as for DV, how simplified is it to say that a victim of DV must be strong enough to leave?

Surely you are crapping all over the blaming the victim argument? A beacon of the feminist virtue.....don't tell women to stop walking at night tell men to stop raping? Prepare girls to be victims? FFS

Here we go again, another woe is me I'm being attacked.

How are you a single Mum if you're self reliant? How?

Stay at home Mum, not single.

Well, mine are happier with a father than I think they would be without. I'm pleased that he stuck around too and am happy to still be in a partnership with him.
But I didn't know that back in 1983, or indeed when we decided to have children back in 1991. So I still think that it's sensible to plan ahead and be able to support any children yourself, without additional input from other people being essential. That way you know that they are safe and provided for.
But it's only my view, if others are happy to believe that they will still be with their children's father decades down the line and that's enough security for them, I wish them luck.

Well perhaps if you're not so passive aggressive I won't feel defensive.

Seriously who couldn't cope with or look after their own children? It's not hard is it, really?

It was indeed, and I said earlier that it might suit some, but having experienced a form of it for three years, I'd rather jump off Beachy Head than go through that again.
And no, it's not to do with regular sex, or any sex.

'could we bring the language and discussion back down to sort of polite, non aggressive please?'

Agree completely.

See. So you say when I say I couldn't be SAHM without my husband, unless I depended on the state, and you answer that if you can't do it alone you shouldn't have children......and I'm being rude. Do you always do this? Say something rude but in a nice, cowardly way, and then act offended when someone doesn't take it well?

Personal? I shouldn't have children is personal.

Thinking about separatism ... does anyone know if there are separatists groups in the UK who will take in visitors or who are interested in temporary living arrangements as well as permanent?

It seems I'm not the only one who finds it an interesting possibility, but wouldn't be able to sustain it full time. Or do you think that doing it in a temporary way would destroy the whole point or just be self-indulgent?

I haven't retracted that at all. I'd rather stick pins on my eyes than rely on the state and so I couldn't be a SAHM if I didn't have my husband's earnings to live on, so in your eyes I shouldn't have children. Seems like fragility isn;t just for the married among us, dependent fragile women. What if I spin a little light hearted, aren't women great, let's kick out the men as they're all abusers and rapists anyway? Do I still get to stay?

I am insulted, frankly insulted, at your comment that I shouldn't have children.

In a round about sort of way, unless you're completely independent of state help my husband also supports you.

No, SaF, that does make good sense. I was really just wondering whether it'd seem a different kind of thing to be a temporary separatist than a permanent one.

I've found this thread so interesting and inspirational, and people who do live separatist or partly separatist lives (like Riven only having women in her home, aside from her own DH) have given me a lot to think about.

I do believe that there's something very important about women-only spaces, and it'd be such a shame if communities where people feel happy and secure, like the one in the US that was linked to, just died out. I think I would have a better sense of myself as a person if I had more time to explore what I'm like when I'm not living with a man - much as I love my DH. I guess there's probably quite a lot of us who've never lived alone or only with women for any long period, so it would be really interesting to experience.