Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

But crap, unless you think men are to be defined solely by their reproductive capacities, a parent is the person who brings up the child. Not the person who gives the genetic material. To believe otherwise is to say that the defining feature of fatherhood is producing sperm that meets an egg - and that seems to reduce dads to nothing more than penises.

I don't really understand - this seems to me to make your points about separatism harder, not easier, to follow.

MrMen who is the 'you' that you're addressing? A few seperate individuals?

You've totally missed the point that sexism = prejudice plus power.

A few individuals on a message board claiming that, personally, they don't need men in their lives...well it's not quite the same thing.

lenin sorry if I wasn't clear, I just mean your (a-?) typical Woe Is Me teen, would have one thing less to angst about.

the most ironic thing is youre post Mrman.
men have male privaledge and have been offensivaly steriotyping women for centrys.
they have also been offensivaly steriotyping [some]other men.

CDV you seem to be conflating several issues here, this isn't a thread about the rights and wrongs of sperm donation (still disagree with you on that BTW, but a completely different debate)....it is about living in non conventional set ups and a theoretical debate on how separatism could work, during which no one has suggested blocking/denying fathers access.

Mr Man don't forget power structures. No one has suggested that male only spaces be banned, it is only when those spaces are used institutionally to exclude women from access to finance, employment, business opportunities, legal support etc that they become problematic.

I just have to stop lurking to ask a question.
As far as I can see Crapola is objecting to women completely cutting themselves off from men; not allowing children to see their male biological parent or any male at all. I am confused because as far as I have understood thing on this thread nobody has suggested this. Nobody who affirms separatist tendencies has suggested that male children would be unwelcome either. It seems to me that she is arguing against a idea of separatist feminism that doesn't even exist. (correct me if wrong please).
Also I think SaF has said some very wise things about perspectives.
Right: I'll go back to my lurking now.

Grand so lenin as I said a couple of posts up it's not something I know too much about - all I have is anecdotal stuff where a parent died in babyhood and as the child grew up they wanted to know more. I'm happy to defer to greater knowledge.

(As an aside I am trying really hard not to get sucked into defending a position i'm not sure about simply because it's being challenged. Don't care if t makes me wishy washy - it will make mn a less adversarial place, in a small waya)

"women's liberation can't happen with the participation of men, just that it will take a LOT longer: Molasses
men's presence has not added anything to my life
I do not want any male friends
We could use men for reproduction purposes only: keep them in battery farms or something
[A male environment requires] wall-to-wall sky sports, minimum housework and questionable hygiene as standard
[men have] self importance/hatred towards others
ultimately, women are safer without men^
[men don't share] real emotional closeness
[men don't have] emotionally honest and intimate friendships with each other
In my personal and social life i only want females [multiple posters]
I dont want to mix with men"

MrMan - I'm female, consider myself a feminist to some degree, and totally disagree with all of those plucked out quotes from posters here.

I'd have thought you'd be able to find much more damning ones elsewhere on MN?

Cat, your interpretation of this thread is identical to mine.

yep-i think youre right Cat!

im agreeing with youre post yet again Saf[21.31]
and this people-is why im semi seperate!!

SAF, it may well be your interpretation is completely correct.

But at the moment the thread reads a bit nuttily...with everyone saying 'a' and CDV saying she completely disagrees with 'b'.

oh-im reading it as Cat is saying this Saf[...shes saying that..............]
the same as youre saying?

No floy equalism isn;t intellectually lazy, it is simply different.

Equalism is absolutely teh ideology I follow. Partly through my own circs- there is simply no way I would support a cause that would sacrifice concerns over my boys for female progeression. But it is what I believe in anyway. not because I am lazy but because it's my belief.

But I shall be honest; whilst beleiving fervently in an equal society I would also feel hugely bereft if it were male free. I have no problems with others choosing that path if they wish, but it will never nbe for me and yet I still mange to accept the notion of feminism (within the concepts I already mentioned) and patriarchy. But whilst I am intrested in feminism I fight harder probably for other aspects of equalism becuase of my own personal circs (to whit, disabled family members). I prefer the wider fight for myself. Up to others if they choose otherwise but it does not make me lazy.

SAF. Again misrepresenting. No surprise there.

I am saying, pretty clearly, that children deserve to know their parents. Something that gender separatists don't adhere to, idealogically. My posts are responding to posts on this thread. I'm not sure prejudice of any individual or group relies upon how society treats people.

I think that nearly all women would benefit from spending some time away from men TBH. Women are socialised on a fairly deep level to defer to men and define themselves in relation to men, so that spending time with other women, without the presence of men, can be a good way of working out who you are and what you want. An awful lot of men can't bear not having women's attention - I have had plenty of experience of being out in public with female friends and having to stop our conversations, repeatedly, to see off intrusive men. THis is not to say that I dislike men or want to avoid them completely, just that sometimes I like to spend time among women, without men there.

I would love to see the research regarding single parents, BTW, and outcomes for children as I know the outcomes are worse.

I can't afford private education for my dcs, I accept that the educational outcomes are not Ss good.....I wouldn't feel inferior because of it, I accept that it's true.