Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

I have yet to read on the thread any post giving a positive reason why people should cut themselves off from the opposite sex. I can see why people would want to avoid men who have suffered violence or abuse at the hands of a man but that is not a positive. It is the absence of a negative and to my mind leads to a very restricted life. It may be be better than risking a very bad outcome but still not a positive.

Riven - you seem to have chosen a quasi separatist life for religious reasons because people in religion believe it wrong for men and women who are not related to each other to be alone together. I have had male friends and colleagues who are Jewish or Muslim and enjoy a quiet western life while their wives are effective;ly shut off at home. That to me is not a positive either.

Oi Morebeta - I am also Muslim. I would generally not be alone with a man, but nor would my husband be alone with a woman.

No beenbeta i havent. My reasons are extremely complex even though i have tried to verbalise them here. Im not good at words.
I was becoming seperatist before i became religious and i dont believe my religion says men and women should be seperate regardless of the current takeover of it by the patriarchy.
I dont want to mix with men. I find mixing with females a huge positibe for me.
its pretty simple and i dont care that some poeple find it weird or threatening or anything.

This thread is generating more thoughts than I can process on a phone.

Interesting stuff on kyriarchy..in my compartmentalised mind, I would be wary of removing concepts such as patriarchy, racism, classism,colonialism, homophobia as entities in themseleves, as I think there are specific issues within each to address...but for the intersection between these various power hierarchies to be named and discussed is an interesting concept...

Which leads to my other self realisation, I am actually a bit of a compartmentalist (made up word) in general.

• I like my domestic space to be man free in terms of running it and living in it..bar my son. My male family members and platonic friends are always welcome to visit, and do often and stay over...lovers are not really welcome in this space.
• I like the non sexual, 'masculine' friendships I get at.work...which are exactly as Gingerbreadman described as male friendships..when a whole world of shit descended on me and they would buy me a pint and sit in friendly silence with me in the pub...or make some stupid comment so that I could rant at them and feel better.
• I like my intimate female friendships in which we share everything and support each other as much as our lives allow
• I like my sexual life to be with men and separate from all of the above.

I still struggle to see if someone chooses to live a more separatist lifestyle and it suits them...why anyone else would have an issue with it. Why would it shock or sadden anyone that people structure their lives to suit personal circumstances and wants.

I decided to stay single and not bring another person into my children's lives. And I can't see me living with anyone again, so I suppose I have a part-separatist life.

Mundanes (I think that's an hilarious name) or married couples can be very uncomfortable with single people, thinking I must be unhappy single.

Sorry xposted with loads.

I'm just extrapolating a wee bit, if I may, on the idea of choosing the sex of those in trades or service to us, as Riven has.

Where does it not become acceptable to do this? How about if someone insists on a male only lawyer, male GP? What if, to go further, a political or personal group insisted on a male only pilot?

For me, as a feminist, I get very uncomfortable with defining people by sex. I do understand why some people do but it makes me uncomfortable. I am at ease with some people and not with others and posession of male or female genitalia has no bearing on that.

Its within my home only armchair. For me that is. Cant speak for any other person

No, your home is your domain and you must have in it only whom you please, I get that.

Hmm, food for thought!

Hmm. Seems like the penis is a weapon that can't be approached.

SAF. I see you like to misrepresent my opinions.....I think children deserve to know their parents, that's all. Like you have the idea the children fair better with women only. My thoughts are with children....not mothers or fathers.

Leningrad, many women ARE great. They are loving and kind and supportive and great company.

Many are not. They are mean and selfish and thoughtless and poor company.

Just like men.

How do you get to that conclusion, crapola?

As far as I can see, one person on this thread has described some horrific experiences that happened to here. Many others have spoken about the importance of men in their lives. Has anyone other than you even used the word penis?

I think it's important to be really careful here - reducing men to 'a penis' is, imo, offensive, even if you are trying to argue against what you perceive to be unease with/reaction against men.

Like people said it is interesting but it wouldn't work on any kind of large scale unless people develop a way to make children independent of the human body which would mean society wouldn't change anyway because if you don't need someone they are easy to ignore. And I don't think many people would want to live that well as well.

On a small scale it's possible but there are problems, like having male children what happens? I have not seen any answers to this so far and people who have had some experience of proper separatist communes seem to suggest that boys are not welcome after a certain age.

Next is if the father is present in the children's lives can you truly be separate? This goes on with how would people have children as well, through IVF maybe to my knowledge there is a shortage of sperm in this country.

Also would these communes possibly have exclusions based on class? race?, they would require wealth to set up and not all divides in society are based on sex alone. Does it also not suggest that women are all lovely to each other as well.

And would it even have effect on current society? people would just ignore as it will have no affect on them so why care. Would that make the whole thing just a pointless exercise then or is the process more for individual comfort than to incite change?

I can understand if people feel comfortable with their own gender I know of men who are uncomfortable being around women and prefer to 'hang out with the lads' so to speak. I think a semi-separatist is viable not so sure on a full one though.

I suppose like someone said earlier for some people the other sex (except for 1 or 2) really doesn't add anything to their lives. I don't think this is really a good thing but just neutral.

Sorry I am just a curious mind.

Interesting point SAF, yes, I wonder....

Do you think it can be linked to class and financial situation?

I wonder if some women are less affected by patriarchy than others, then depending on family situation, class etc?
Although I am a feminist, I feel very relaxed about men and feel that the patriarchy hasn't really disadvantaged me.

Buut then I look at my situation and wonder if that plays a part?

I really like women; I really like men.

Something I'm wondering reading this thread: what impact do you think sexuality has in all this? I can see why if you are straight, you might want to isolate yourself from men because you don't want the distraction of sexual itneraction. I can see too that if you are a lesbian (like the woman in the community that was linked to), you might want to isolate yourself either to get away from homophobia, or because you just prefer to be around women. I'm bisexual, and I don't really understand what it's like to separate out one gender on the basis of sexual attraction - does this mean I'd be a really rubbish separatist?