Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

I really like some women, I really like some men.

When I think of those I absolutely detest with a passion, they are both women, though.

Women have stirred up greater emotions in me , generally, in life even though I am heterosexual.

LG - I know what you mean. I remember my dad one time commenting, with a bit of a grin, that my mum mostly read books by women whereas he read books 'without thinking about gender'. I went and counted the numbers of male and female-authored books on their bookshelves in their room, and my dad had more books by men than my mum had books by women. Just a little thing but it made a big (if blurry) impression on me about how we view women's voices in our society.

SATF, by jove, I think you are right! I have genuinely never looked at feminism and patriarchy in that way!
Wow!!!

Hmm, okay, I am tall, slim, apparently conventionally okay looking, white, heterosexual, middle class, degree educated, parents still married, me still married to a white , educated middle class man who earns very well, no need to work ( I don't).

I have a lot to consider SAF, thank you. Just because it doesn't affect me neagtively, doesn't mean I shouldn;t be fighting, yes?

Leningrad, the only women I detest are my MIL and SIL, BTW and for very good ( and complex!) reasons!

No Leningrad, I find I spend far more time in women only groups than in mixed company these days.

I like it!

SAF,m it's hard to see things sometimes if they don't personally affect you.

I think your point that the patriarchy actively serves women like me well, is very interesting and the more I reflect on that, the more truth it holds.

another excellent post Saf.[14.10]
well-yes-this is exactly what ive been trying to say.
it actually feels like im getting a kickin from all angles.
and it all comes from the patriarchy.

I haven't reduced people to a penis....this thread has. To say every child's right is to know their parents, biological, where possible is not prejudice.

How has this thread reduced people to penises? It's only your post that does this. I agree with you re. childrens' rights to know their biological parents are if possible - but I didn't notice anyone saying different?

ArmchairFeminist..

It's odd because the only two people i really detest and almost wish ill to are also women.

And they're not the Ols.

They are both people/women who have actively gone out of their way to cause us distress.

And they succeeded.

MIL is an arse but i don't wish her ill will.

She is a product of her own upbringing and not a very nice person..
We don't have contact which is good but i don't detest her.

SAF thanks for so clearly articulating the idea of how different types of women are treated within patriarchy. When I have tried to make that argument before(not here) people have looked at me like I have two heads.

CDV, I genuinely have no idea what thread you are reading. No one here who is still in a relationship with their children's father is suggestions moving away from them. No single parent is suggesting blocking their biological fathers access. In fact the single parents here (female and male) are saying it is not in the best interest of their children to move another person into their domestic space....are you really suggesting that a single mum should move in the next man to provide a role model figure?

No SAF brought up my views she thought I had on another thread. I brought up hers.

Separatism is not feminist. Feminism, to me, is to seek equality not avoid men.

Not somthing I would fancy (separatism), for me feminism is something that needs to be built into society and become a norm not just for closed communes or individuals.

I don't think that many women want to live without men; I most certainly do not. Most of my friends are male by sheer nature of the hobby I choose. I also don't want to look at problems without focus also on how it affects men. I just don't thinkn it woks that way- after all as a mothewr of boys anything that impacts on them comes back to me again; doublly so as I will be carer for at least one all my life. I wonder how that would work in a commune where my child had to leave at 18! Sorry son, I know you are severely autistic but you're still part of the patriarchy so off you go.

I don't have an issue with sepparatist lifetsyles but I would much preger to focus my energies on changing things on a far wider level,

marking my place

Peachy - I agree with what you said. Especially the part about things that impact your sons coming back to you again.

I know this is only a theoretical discusison and most people don't think it would work for them on a personal level but my interest in the thread is about changing things on a wider society level as you said.

In fact, I have a feeling that separatism might well be one of those cases where The Law of Unintended Consequences might intrude. Just been thinking about societies where separatism of men and women is commonplace and it is clear that in many strict muslim and catholic countries separatism has not been good for women at all. In fact, wherever it happens, it seems to reinforce the dominance of men over women. Women choosing separatism and living in commiunes that excluded men might actually make a society a much worse place for women - at least that is what the RL examples that exist seem to suggest.

Thinking of a more benign example of my all male baording school days, not growing up with girls 'us boys' had some pretty skewed perceptions about women or indeed no idea at all. Same goes for girls growing up in an all female environment. Not what I woudl think of as a good way to bring up the next generation of adults.

More integration between men and women in society and less segregation in the workplace, politics, home life would lead to better outcomes for society and women in society. In fact, if we had perfect integeration in every walk of life there would be far better understanding between sexes and far less tolerance of inequality and abuse.

It seems odd that anyone would consider going back to the structure of society as it existed in the Middle Ages where large segments of society were segregated by sex.