Resisteing feminity 2

[garlicbutter]

sethstarkaddersmackerel Wed 16-Mar-11 13:39:12

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't smile

I'm the naked beach devotee. I've not yet crossed the final frontier of socialising naked - was invited to a British Naturist event once while lounging on a beach in the buff but just couldn't do it - small talk in the buff feels wrong to me. So daft of me, when you consider that I'm happy to be naked and so are they.

Having said that, we'll be in north Norfolk in mid-August so if you want to try it on one of the most beautiful beaches in the country (Holkham) but need to know somebody else will be there being naked and somewhat hairy then that's your chance

It is the most wonderful feeling on a hot day to get your clothes off and just wander free of any encumbrances feeling the warm breeze on your body. And it is so much nicer drying almost instantaneously from a swim rather than festering in a piece of soggy lycra for ages. If you try it once, you will probably do it many times. I started with going topless but that felt too titillating actually (all a bit Page 3 given my massive breasts) - going completely clothing free felt much less sexual and hence bizarrely much more comfortable. So don't equate it to being topless but more so if you've done that - it is actually a very different experience.

If you're intrigued, try sleeping naked first. I haven't worn clothes in bed in 10 years and it is heavenly not getting pyjama bottoms all rucked up or having to adjust nighties as you roll over. And then try wandering around naked a bit maybe while getting your morning cuppa. And then head to a deserted beach somewhere and just strip off and see if anyone bats an eyelid. They probably won't :)

SGM - a good suncream and sunhat, and a sun shelter for the hot part of the day, solves most pink issues :)

saf - there aren't that many days true, but any day where you'd be warm enough in a swimsuit or bikini is a day you could be naked as they aren't really known for their thermal properties (and the post swim sogginess actually means you're colder than if you were naked) :)

Blimey - maybe I'm just cold-blooded? I do put a top on on the coldest winter nights, and the heating is on overnight once or twice in the winter, but otherwise it's me and a 15 tog duvet (7 in summer).

I've read through this thread over the last day and it's brilliant.
I'll read the first one tonight when I've got a bit more time.

My hair had been getting long and was doing my head in, so I bobbed it to about chin length and don't have to do anything but stick a hairpin in the front to keep it out of my eyes. I would love to get it cropped or clippered but I'm v. big and would look unwell/bedlam patient.
Saf, I've seen your pic (facebook) and your hair looks great.
I've also decided not to bother dying my greys out, at least for now.

I cut my hair myself. It used to enrage me that me and DH would both get our hair cut, by the same stylist, and his would cost £10 and mine would cost £30 despite his cut taking twice as long.

I've been thinking about what trappings of femininity restrict women's movement or other abilities, like the high heels at the zoo, and the mini skirt you can't bend over in.
Long fingernails.
Maxi dresses/skirts.
Tight skirts you can't stride in.
Long hair.
Jewellery that gets in the way or is dangerous.
I was thinking how the more feminine a woman is, the less she is expected to do. Princesses etc. Chinese foot binding that meant the women had to be carried.
Rapunzel for instance was imprisoned in a tower and kept away from the rest of society because of her very long hair.

Bit of a stream of conscious ramble there, some thoughts anyway.

talking of haircuts, we saw a hairdresser recently called something like 'His and kidz' which said it did men and children. I wonder what they would do if a woman went in - presumably it would be sex discrimination for them to refuse.

Has anyone else get the double meaning of "trappings of femininity"?

I meant "does" not "has"; incomplete editing there.

I've lurked on here for ages, but wanted to add my twopenneth.

I'm a tall (over six foot) woman and as such, have always had (and have been forced to have) a fairly elastic relationship with femininity. I frequently had to wear male clothing, because women's clothes were wrongly proportioned; people constantly mistake me for a man, particularly if I have short hair. I don't have a particularly high percentage of body fat but I freqently have to buy plus-size clothing, for the length.

Overall, this has benefited me immensely, and certainly has informed my feminist beliefs from an extremely young age. I've always played with femininity because the size of my body means that I had to. I appreciate that I'm exceedingly fortunate that my parents, immediate family, and close friends never, ever, called my female-ness into question because my body did not and does not fit the prescriptions of femininity.

Because those who do like to call my womanhood into question are inevitably wankers, I sometimes like to whack on a pair of sky-high heels for the evening, mostly for the consternation that it seems to cause them. Bwaaahahahahahaha!

Hello everybody. Keep meaning to join this thread, have lurked here and there and love reading it.

I live in France and I'm at that time of year when I have to decide whether to remove my leg hair or not. I leave it, and underarm hair, quite happily all winter but tend to conform in spring/summer. The slim, smooth, chic, ultra feminine, French women would think I was bonkers if I went out with hairy legs.

I suspect friends of mine would feel the need to have a word with me about 'letting myself go' and so on.

They already think I'm most odd because I don't dye my greying hair and almost never wear make-up.

Oh, it's undoubtedly an intimidation thing. I've always had attention for the height, along the harmless but never-ending lines of 'aren't you tall?' but when I put on heels the comments become more barbed, more personal: 'WHY are you wearing those?' or insinuations of drag. These comments always come from men. It's as though they accept I can't help my height - almost like they consider it a disability of some kind - but when I deliberately make myself taller, to a height at which even quite tall men are considered tall? Well, that's Just Not On!

While your thoughts on shrinking women are undoubtedly spot on, my personal notions of femininity and womanhood are bound up with my height. When I was about ten, my doctor encouraged my mother to enrol me in a programme in which I would be treated with oestrogen in order to stunt my growth. There wasn't anything particularly sinister in and of his actions (though sinister they were): he genuinely thought that being over a certain height would be, for a woman, a very real handicap; as in, I would struggle to get married, have a career, be accepted in society! He genuinely thought that stunting my height would benefit me and, at one point, gently said 'but you won't be able to wear heels, you know' (aged 10 you couldn't have got me in a dress at the point of a shotgun!). My mum left it up to me and I remember very clearly, refusing point blank to consent to anything of the sort because I simply could not see anything wrong with being tall. My dad's very tall and it looked to me to be bloody great - everyone knew him, recognised him, chatted to him. Tall was awesome! But I'm not my dad - because I'm female. And this was never in question.

So it was weird position of defending my right to be feminine AND tall AND able AND accepted and all those things. I'm rambling a bit now and might not make sense but I guess, while women are supposed to be small and dainty, being small and dainty isn't any better, in the eyes of the patriarchy, than being unnacceptably tall - even though the patriarchy maintains that small and dainty IS better, in many ways.

Even though I'm told off for my height, I'm definitely policed less than other women because physically there is little difference between me and the male bodies who get to do lots of things women 'can't' do: I've always been as tall as boys and men, so why can't I do the things they do? They walk home at night - well then, so will I (drove my mum MAD, that one - still does). They lift heavy things - well then, so can I.

Argh, I'm definitely rambling now!

Hello everyone I'm just surfing here.

VictorI am tall, nearly 6 feet, and have worn heals in the past. In my 20s I often wore very high shoes when I wanted to. I always felt being tall made me somehow feel safe though. I always got positive comments on my height, never negative, unlike you. How shocking for a doctor to suggest your growth be stunted.

I've never worried about my weight, which can fluctuate, didn't care about gaining weight during pregnancy. I'm quite often bored when other girlfriends go on about their weight, make-up, looks but recognise it is important to them.

I think part of the reason I am so comfortable with my body is that I was into a wide range of sports when I was small and I think I got an inkling of how amazing and powerful the human body is, and female and male athletes come in lots of different body shapes. My parents also used to drag me around art galleries too, so I suppose I was exposed to lots of different body shapes. My parents were also very keen to debate the power of advertising. I think because I think having a healthy body is such a blessing is also why I was never into drugs or alcohol abuse and never succumbed to any peer pressure in that regard.

I would love a good set of teeth though but I'm happy in my own body.

I've finally finished reading through the first thread, brilliant, and fascinating.
Particularly amused that I wouldn't want to stroke my husbands lovely hairy legs.

I've not been shaving my legs every day for the last year or so anyway, but today I chose not to shave my armpits either. That never happens unless I've actually not got a razor, so I'll have to see how it goes.

Does anyone know how often armpit hairs shed and therefore how long until they're pointy and not spiky?
Leg hairs too?

I can actually remember a boy at school (Yr 8?) looking at my hairy be-skirted legs with disgust and asking why I didn't shave them.

And with the time I've saved not shaving and having shorter hair to deal with I've done something actually pampering, for me, and put some Flexitol on my poor cracked heels.

Saf, yes, less threatening, less capable, definitely.
I've got my maxi skirt on today, and I can't carry much downstairs as I have to gather it up. Walking downstairs with DS behind me requires concentration so we don't get tripped up.
Which is perfectly ridiculous.

I did DS hair with the clippers at the weekend (since I'm not 'allowed' to put clips in his hair ) and I'm really jealous.

I put clips in ds2's hair and snigger when everyone tells me what lovely pretty features she has and how you could never mistake her for a boy.

A fortnight since I started my femininity resistance project and I thought I'd report in.

My legs are still unshaved. It's not a big deal, but I'm not wearing skirts atm. The hairs are long enough not to be stabby, so DH isn't too bothered.

My armpits are also unshaved still and are no bother whatsoever. What a waste of time that's been for 20 years!

I'd left my eyebrows unplucked too, to see how that felt, but they didn't look natural, just untended to. Plucking can kill/damage some of the follicles, so there's just the odd hair growing out at right angles after two decades of studious tweezing, so I've just plucked them quickly.

How's everyone else getting along?

still hairy.
I'm wearing skirts which are mostly just on the knee so it's very visible. Haven't worn make-up for ages either, after I had my hair cut short and the make-up just made me look weird.

Haven't felt less confident about it, though I think the assistant in Oasis looked at me in a funny way the other day

Sybil, you unsettled her with a paradigm jolt I guess.

I have a dilemma.

I want to paint my toenails.
I don't want to shave my legs.
BUT, painted toenails + stubbly big toe???