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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Resisteing feminity 2

216 replies

garlicbutter · 03/04/2011 15:44

sethstarkaddersmackerel Wed 16-Mar-11 13:39:12

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't smile

OP posts:
sethstarkaddersmackerel · 08/04/2011 20:15

oh I bet they get an amaaaaazing high afterwards Stewie Grin

StewieGriffinsMom · 08/04/2011 20:42

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sethstarkaddersmackerel · 08/04/2011 20:44

Pah! It is the natural endorphins produced by your body to deal with agonising pain.

StewieGriffinsMom · 08/04/2011 21:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Earthymama · 09/04/2011 12:31

Just thought I'd post after lurking and say I am taking my unshaved legs to the park with DGC!
I am 'too old' to be regarded as suitable for policing by the male gaze so not that brave really Smile

redvelvetmooncupcake · 09/04/2011 18:07

I quite like the idea of nude swimming in theory but in practice I think I would have to wear bikini bottoms, I would be too worried about things approaching my nether regions Shock

Yesterday I wore shorts with my hairy legs. Don't think anyone noticed, but I shaved them last night and felt all rejuvenated. I'm wearing a maxidress today though so nobody knows!

I have been thinking about this the last couple of days anyway and a thread in chat prompted me to post - I will mainly be resisting perfoming femininity by refusing to pay to have my face cut or injected merely because it is the face of a 40-.50-,60-,year old.

It does worry me how normal these invasive procedures are seen as now, I may not feel as confident when I'm the only 50-year-old with wrinkles...

There were some photos of Kate Moss in the DM today (they were saying she looks fat Hmm whatever). She is aobut 37 now I think and doesn't appear to have had any "work" done apart from teeth whitening, hair dye/a few extensions and some makeup and she looks great - her skin probably looks "older" than many women her age due to her smoking but who gives a monkey's? She looks happy, she was laughing in one photo and eating sweets in another. I hope she resists the lure of the surgeon and wears her (extraordinary) life on her face. I've never thought of her as role model material but this is an area where she really could be.

JaneS · 10/04/2011 12:40

Hi everyone. Just wanted to delurk and say I had a little 'cogs turning' moment yesterday I wanted to share with you nice people. Smile

I go swimming and don't bother that my legs/armpits aren't shaved. Go me, eh? Being not the brightest star in the sky, however, I realized yesterday I've been conscientiously going to the leisure centre dressed in jeans or long skirts or tights, all of which end up flicking onto the wet floor as I get changed. It didn't occur to me to wear a knee-length skirt and bare unshaven legs. Oops.

So now I will. Baby steps I know. Smile

Unrulysun · 11/04/2011 13:01

Apparently there is a condition called 'Sudden Immersion Death Syndrome' iirc. Which does exactly what it says on the tin.

tortilla · 12/04/2011 08:30

So I shaved my legs for the wedding... I also went to the hairdressers for a blow dry on my unruly mop and - shhh, don't tell anyone - it was relaxing and my hair felt really nice and bouncy and shiny. I even wore mascara and lipstick. Am I inadvertently turning into a dolly bird?

I was thinking about it very consciously as I did each of these things. The thing is, for me, it is nice to do this as part of getting ready for a special event - I don't get out much with two small children so getting ready adds to the build up and excitement of a lovely social event in some way. But I hate the idea that most? some people think I should be performing these frankly bizarre and time-consuming rituals every day before I'm allowed out of the house, and I certainly refuse to kowtow to that. Of course, doing it for a special event is still part of being socially conditioned to think I have to be hair free and not natural, but at least I'm aware of that when choosing to do so now I suppose, and happy and proud enough of my body as is to go out with hair everywhere and no make up on my face most of the time if I wish to. And I guess that is progress - am resisting compulsory femininity, if not exactly resisting femininity entirely I guess

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 12/04/2011 16:12

that's interesting Tortilla. Glad you enjoyed the wedding blowdry Grin

I'm going to a nice restaurant with dh in a week or two, not sure I dare to not wear tights.

alexpolismum · 12/04/2011 18:36

genuine question - is it generally seen as necessary to wear tights to be smart? Have I missed something here?

I don't even own any tights. I prefer socks in the winter and bare feet with sandals in the summer. On formal occasions when I wear a trouser suit am I supposed to have tights? I just wear socks of an appropriate colour.

swallowedAfly · 12/04/2011 18:48

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alexpolismum · 12/04/2011 18:51

Oh, I see. I associated it with the nice restaurant!

tortilla · 12/04/2011 18:56

alexpolismum - i wear opaques with dresses in winter to keep my legs warm. but even for work i wear bare legs and sandals in summer most of the time. Only occasionally will i wear natural colour sheer tights - usually in a work situation where i need to be really smart. I find them so uncomfortable and sweaty that i don't bother otherwise. And tbh, I find hairy legs look better au naturel than squished into sheer tights :) But yes, I do wear them when I think I need to be smart. But only work, not for private social events though, like this weekend's wedding where I went bare hair and tight less legged.

While we're on clothing, a question from me: do people tend to see skirts and dresses as 'feminine' in the sense of being forced upon us? Only, I find dresses so much more comfortable than trousers as there are no waistbands or belts needed to keep them up so they are much comfier. I lived in wrap dresses when pregnant. So for me, they are a practical solution for comfort but I wonder whether I'm seen as reinforcing 'the rules' for other women.

tortilla · 12/04/2011 18:57

But I doubt I would ever bat an eyelid at another woman at work with bare legs, so not quite sure why I feel the need to wear them even occasionally!

alexpolismum · 12/04/2011 19:06

I don't see skirts and dresses as being forced upon us. I prefer skirts in the heat. We had a heatwave with temps of 42 degrees last summer, and long skirts were much more comfortable than trousers. Even with suncream on, shorts/ short skirts are uncomfy when it gets really hot - you get a prickly feeling on your skin. Light, loose, flowy skirts are best! And my lovely collection of hats, of course.

notenoughsocks · 13/04/2011 14:08

Had better admit, that I have not fully kept up with this double thread, so please be patient if I have covered anything already covered up thread.
Tortilla, or anybody. Would appreciate thoughts on weddings.

I have left my legs unshaven, and has been no problem - even in dresses. But I admit that I do not work in a high powerered, even strucutred, environment so I am not subject to massive pressures.

Anyhow, there is my SOL's wedding this weekend. And - I know this sounds weired - it feels almost disrpespectful not to shave my legs. Like I couldn't be arsed to do it properly. Like the usual male meaning of the word 'unshaven'. Tortilla, have seen you just went to a wedding. What do you - or anybody else - think?

notenoughsocks · 13/04/2011 14:12

oopps - just gone further back and saw, yes, I am not the only person to have experienced the thought that 'hariy legs at wedding is disrespectful.'

Sorry, Tortilla

WTF?? - What is going on here?

tortilla · 13/04/2011 14:19

I can't explain it. It does feel like it would attract the pejorative use of 'unshaven'. Yet I suppose men can go to weddings with beards and it no be a problem, but if they go with 3 day old stubble that is seen as a bit worse. So maybe if your legs are stubbly (i.e. you shave but haven't bothered for this occasion) that is worse than them being soft and long (i.e. you don't shave at all)

JessinAvalon · 13/04/2011 19:27

A thought I had just now...about ten years ago, a male friend told me that my toenails were disgusting and that I should sort them out (he was referring to chipped toenail polish). I was in my early 20s then and I laughed and said I didn't care.

Yet now, I can't unveil my feet without having perfect toenail polish on them. What happened to make me this self conscious?

I should be less bothered as I get older surely!

I did have a moronic ex who sapped my confidence but even so..

Sorry, please carry on! Just a random thought I had earlier after reading some of this thread.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 13/04/2011 19:43

it's amazing isn't it Jess? what on earth makes these men think they have the f*cking right to say these things, and why on earth we take any notice? I bet his toenails weren't perfectly pedicured and painted!

EngelbertFustianMcSlinkydog · 13/04/2011 21:39

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JessinAvalon · 14/04/2011 10:51

Hi SSAM
Yes, you're right...and what was annoying about him was that he didn't like women who were too dolled up yet he had standards that I clearly didn't meet and he felt he could comment. The woman he married wasn't into things like toenail painting. The message being there that if you make the effort you have to make it perfect in order to be deemed fit to be seen in public. The same guy also told me I was disgusting for having hair in my hair brush (shock, horror!).

It's sad though that, at the time, I didn't care and yet now I've internalized all these messages and am living by them. My ex had a lot to do with that. He didn't criticise me directly but often commented on other women who looked good-a very subtle way of training me.

It seems ime that men don't like women who are overly dolled up yet they do like a woman to take care of herself. There's a fine balance there that we have to negotiate to appear up to standard but not too over the top.

I like this thread!

alexpolismum · 14/04/2011 11:10

Jess - you have just reminded me of something. My dh has 2 female colleagues who regularly discuss grooming at work. One day they were talking about their plans to go to a beauty salon and have various things done to them, including a pedicure. They said to him "Why don't you ring Alex and ask her if she wants to come with us?" He told them I wasn't in to all that sort of thing, but thanks all the same. "Come on," they said "she'll enjoy it! All women want to have nice feet!" His reply? "Alex has lovely feet, they've got toes and everything!"

He told me that if they hadn't drawn attention to it themselves, he would never have noticed their toenail varnish.

tortilla · 14/04/2011 13:20

alex - can you give your husband a big kiss from me? :)