Article on Motherhood in Guardian

[Blackduck]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/26/modern-mother-equality-illusion

Have only skim read, but usual comments!

Ok as I have mentioned before what is it you want to change then? How are you going to make men do stuff when the women go in and just do it for them when men know you will do it? Why would they change what would there incentive be if they are that type of personality and know you will do it? If you want to work and the other one take a lesser role why not enable that to happen by going out with a man who doesnt care about his career (There are millions of them out there?)

I dont know how I get a bad rap for saying that I want women to have the self esteem and confidence to want to not take on everything. I dont want women to be treated like shit by idiots. I dont want my friends who I know who do this to do it but although luckily in my cirle they are the minority, they wont stop because a) they feel like any man is better than no man b) they dont think they can do better c) they enable it by doing it for them.

It is something I feel very strongly about cause in RL it causes other women to feel like they are banging their head up a brick wall when talking to them.

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We need to start by focusing on men's behaviour

By doing what?

How am in denial?

He takes over when he is here most of the time as I am out. I dont do much childcare at all at weekends unless we go out anywhere I go etc. I dont do any of the other bits as I am usually out or tired from being out.

you still havent told me as I keep asking what men should be doing. All I see is wishy washy responses from you saying men need to do something, they need to take responsibility etc

You know I dont look after her 24/7 I have already mentioned in the thread I go out a lot repeated times. I meant I do both at same time eg work and look after her.

As I said just go out places you want to go if you have hobbies. I go out mainly doing one thing which is clubbing/pubbing a lot at evenings/weekends but there is loads of places you could go if you have different interests. I also agree that men should do that and that is what I am saying. I get frustrated by the women in my life who cant come out because their husband/boyf wont 'let' them as they have to look after kids.

I dont know why we are arguing as I believe the same things as you and the reason why I am this thread is I get so annoyed seeing people do this it winds me up. It also winds me up when they are treated like nothing more than slaves to their blokes and he says jump they say how high? I talk to them and go round and round and round but they wont change they honestly dont see it.

Why is noodle getting a hard time?

Also I will do ANYTHING it takes to stop some girls being treated like this. It makes me want to scream. If I had a way to change it as an outsider I would. I want the girl to believe she is worth more, and I hate the fact she doesnt realise it

Well go on then what's the solution?

I'm not an antifeminist, actually. I'm a feminist, and no buts about it. I like the idea of axe-wielding gorgons. But my husband does half the childcare, and half the housework, and also works full-time and supports my ambitions... isn't that at least grounds for hope...? He does do all that. The public sphere questions you raise are important too, and I never claimed that solving the problems of the oikos would solve the problems of the polis and the agora too. But it's a start.

I have 2 people in mind in RL that do this and that is why it is getting emotive from me. We talk over and over and they say they will leave him but they dont. They let him do stuff but never do stuff in return. They do everything in the house and with the kids. I saw why? and they say he likes it, I wouldnt want to be single, hes not really bad cause x, y,z. You get through to them and they say right thats it but then you go back round and hes out, shes doing it all again then she says its only for a bit, he will be back soon etc.

I think the blokes are responsible for being the biggest pricks going. Why would you stay with them when they are obviously are? I honestly hand on heart dont understand it.

I do say things to them like are you going to look after the kids tonight why we go out you fucking prick youve been out x amount of times this week. Then they are like well, no Ive got a see blah and pick an xbox or whatever. I definitely tell them. If it wasnt illegal they would be dead on the patio.

Dittany what you have wrote wouldnt help my friends. I tell them, they know we all think they are idiots for doing it, even the lads like my husband say they are idiots cause they do it actually to their faces. We have wrote it on facebook to publically name and shame them in front of all the people in town. Everyone comments says they are idiots for doing the things they do. They dont care they just sit on their asses on the xbox. It doesnt change them at all.

I think the only way is to make the girls think YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS. This is actually making me cry