Article on Motherhood in Guardian

[Blackduck]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/26/modern-mother-equality-illusion

Have only skim read, but usual comments!

here

That was about as negative as you can get! Poor woman!

I have only read the first part, it is so depressing, I wonder why she didn't just go back to work and get a nanny. Of course every new mother has their bad days, but I don't really identify with what she says at all.

The most interesting paragragh is this:

'Sam, a researcher and mother of one, has noticed double standards being applied to her and her husband, who both work full-time. "If he is working from home, he will take our daughter to nursery. Or if she is not well, he will take a day off work ? we try to do that in turns. So he is a hero and I am left feeling like a bad mum. I think that's what I feel most cheated by. Because I do think that's the way of the world: it still is massively skewed in terms of what the mother is meant to do. We are expected to be the primary caregiver."'

That is so true, men get applauded for doing normal parents activities; whereas women are very quickly condemned for going back to work.

thats awful

but very true

There's another long thread about this article (in AIBU I think). I thought it was a good article, I recognised a lot of it and didn't think it was particularly negative or blamed women, rather it was a reflection on the way things often are. I don't think that's to say the issues with inequity are inevitable, more something to recognize and guard against.

belgo my response was to get a nanny and go back to work, but that's partly because my dh was totally supportive and reminded me that I hadn't expected to be maternal prior to having babies and shouldn't expect to suddenly become earth motherish when they arrived (not sure why I got caught in this meme, but I certianly did).

just want to post this here in case the author or her friend olive come looking at responses, and haven't come across mirci (ex-arm) before - esp olive, as they are currently doing an international study on mothering in the academe...

www.motherhoodinitiative.org

anyway, i made one of those 'not sure whether i'm laughing or crying' noises at the vision of her in her snot and milk stained fawcett society t-shirt though. been there, done that. surely this shouldn't happen to a feminist? [wry face]

is it wrong to want to grab the nearest ak47 and gun down some of the commenters though? particularly the one that suggests 'latinas are more motherly than europeans', esp when they've got a maid to do the cooking and cleaning?

motherhood can be a shocker if you don't get a break or support.

Here if you go back to work as a mother you are admired, and if you dont you are seen as a bit of a waster. Its weird how opinions are different all over the country.

I didnt recognise myself or my experiences at all in that article either. I think its much harder if you have children older - often you are more tired, you have higher expectations and are more upset if you cant reach them, you might have less support due to ageing parents , you have got used to a completely different lifestyle etc.

Also if you married a man that has kids a lot older and his primary focus has been his career. It would be rare if he suddenly completely changed and started being a really hands on parent and was very paternal.

For sure, madwoman....

I live in Spain and the birth rate is going down because women here are reluctant to lose their equality, as it were, by becoming mothers. Spanish men are gradually getting more involved, but they are still very much inclined to leave the child-rearing to the women, possibly even more so than many men in the UK.

There is more grandparent support here (and you see as much grandfathers pushing buggies around the park as you do grandmothers) and "chicas" (sort of housekeeper/au pair...it isn't a perjorative term) are relatively cheap to employ, but even so.

I would say that those Latinas - especially South American women (not Spanish women) - who tend to have more children do so because they are still expected to by their cultures.

It's true Latinos in general adore babies and children, but that doesn't make the women "more motherly" by any stretch of the imagination. A lot of them are trying to get away from it!

Still, one lovely aspect of living here with a small child is how she is generally noticed and welcomed when we're out and about, rather than being either invisible or viewed somewhat dubiously (which is what we've often found in the UK).

Not sure I entirely agree with you re: older mums, noodle. I think in some cases you're probably right, but I'm an example of an older mum (had DD at the age of 39 and am ttc DC2) and for me, it was the perfect time to have kids because I'd reached a point in my career where I wanted to take time out anyway and I'd "sewed my wild oats" in my 20s and 30s so don't feel the slightest bit resentful about not going out and raving it up all the time. I don't think I would have felt ready to devote myself to child-raising before now.

As for grandparents, although DH is 11 years younger than me, his parents are only slightly younger than my own and all are still pretty fit and in their 60s, so well able to give their support.

The other thing is it's surprising sometimes how much parenthood changes both men and women - so the previously career-orientated person may find they are very enthusiastic about parenting. Although I accept, that's often not the case...

Hmm

To be' honest my response was that she was immensely privileged but didn't seem to realise it. I'm a bit tired of hand wringing by people who have quite a nice life, actually. The article just seemed rather precious about her lifestyle and I can't help thinking well, what did you think was going to happen?

But I've been up since 5.30am with my three after being kept awake by some party next door ( still ongoing) so maybe just bad tempered.

I dont think all older mums/dads are like that IC but I do think they have a much harder time if things on here are anything to go by. You dont get the competitive motherhood thing if you are a young mum. I have never seen it in RL its much more go with the flow and I think that is definitely less pressure on the mum.

I also dont think all mums/dads find it harder if they are older but having read the I regret children threads there seems to be a common theme that the parents found it harder as you cant do a lot of the things that were their lives before such as impromptu trips away or going to posh resturants. Stereotype and not true at all but if you are younger you are probably going to care less about being at the soft play, kids places on the weekends. In fact all the young mums I know find this fun themselves.

I have to admit I do find it easier having parents that can do overnight stays, looks after her whenever we need and them just being down the street. I would probably have been much more stressed if I had to do it without family support.

stereotype not true for all not at all!

Noodle - I take your point but I feel these older parents do have one key thing - financial security.

And actually the article would have been more interesting if she had spoken to young couples about equality in their domestic lives. It would be far more interesting than just hearing the same thing over again.

They do probably have more money but I think personally its better to have a mum and dad who equally share parenting, things in the home and working. I would much rather have that (which I have got) than lots more money as I think you are much more likely to be depressed and not enjoy the joys of parenthood.

I also think its much more likely you will break up as you will feel resentful that you have to do it all if that article is anything to go by. Work to live, not live to work is my motto.

Also norman I dont think it will be interesting to younger parents as its more likely middle class older mums that read those types of articles as it is relevant to their lives. It isnt really relevant to many younger parents I know and is in the minority for men to behave like that here. I work in a nursery and dads do equal parenting, they are very much a presence at the centre, at classes and the nursery. You see men out with their kids all the time on their own or just with the dads and men friends. It isnt a weird or rare thing at all.

I dont think it appeals to younger parents thats why they dont write the articles like this aimed at them.

Noodle - the point is that this article took a very narrow perspective on what is a very different experience depending on backgrounds etc. What you said about your nursery is interesting - that the men are involved - and I would be interested in reading about that. But I also take your point that the journalist is writing for a certain demographic - these are Guardian readers.

SaF yes I thought that too, about the T. shirt.

I think if there are added pressures on the type of family portrayed in the article. If one parent is in a very high pressured, stressful job of course it is harder to come home and do childcare etc. It is different if you have a 'lower' type of job that is physically tiring, but not necessarily mentally so. You come out of work and dont think about it until your next in. Hats off to people who do high stress jobs and especially to families with two parents where both mum and dad are working in that type of job. I can see how that would make both of the couple very stressed.

The area I am in most people have parents young, and the men work in more manual/trade type of jobs or the tourism industry. This means a lot do different hours to standard and so are around when the nursery is open/through the week. Also mums here often work to so cant always be around for nursery hours so you get mums doing drop off sometimes, dads do drops off. We have a few single dads as well who have full custody/shared custody of the children.We also come under Surestart and there are dads on the Parent Advisory Board.

When I am in town it is normal to see young men (teens/20s out on their own with children/babies). You also get men and their friends out with babies. My husband always goes with other dads to the park, beach etc. There are obviously more women out but that comes from single parents who often dont work. I wont say it is perfect here and there are obviously some dads that see it as a womens role but overall I would say it is more fair.