Article on Motherhood in Guardian

[Blackduck]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/26/modern-mother-equality-illusion

Have only skim read, but usual comments!

Agreed. The single most important thing I did (as a married and single mother) was to get weekly cleaning support

... and the first light bulb moment for me that all was not as it should be between me and my ex, was being 'persuaded' by him that it was an unnecessary expense during my maternity leave. Despite my maternity pay being able to cover it and me being desperate for it (grrr that still annoys me).

Yes, the notion you should just cope is massive. I think you did exactly the right thing. U still find my fairly demanding job in the week, easier than the weekends rushing around with the kids, though I enjoy weekends more.

I love the bones if my kids, but little ones are truly relentless :)

I still find...I mean.

I think its ok doing all the rushing around with the kids as long as you get a break either through nursery, or work out a way to get a night out at the weekend, or to go out at night once their in bed. It makes the world of difference. I must be mad though as I have my own and I work with 30 screaming little ones every day lol! I dont mind as long as I have a night out to recharge and then I am back ready to go again.

I think you will find LeninGrad that those sessions will make a world of difference to you both.

I so agree, NormanTebbit (not words I've ever uttered before... regarding your namesake..).

I am so sick of these very well-off women moaning at us about their lives, just because they've discovered babies are sometimes sick all over them, as though they think being MOI ought to confer some immunity from it. As for the breadwinner versus SAHM role thing, they seem to have chosen it, and then been amazed that it makes a difference. Of COURSE if one person is doing most of the earning then the other will be doing the childcare. Duh.

If people like her wished to, they could go back to full-time work and employ childcare. if they don't want to do that, they should really STOP COMPLAINING. Yes, it's an adjustment, but it's not insuperable. If the author had read Betty Friedan, she'd know that it was no better when women were 'educated' for 'home-making'. It just is a huge life change, and advice is useless because you have to live through it in your own way.

Meanwhile, women who don't have some sturdy provider in the wings have something to complain ABOUT....

"in selfish terms i think it's good to get paid help if you can afford it "

big IF there

what if you can't afford it

what if you have no family nearby to support you

what if you do just have to get on with it?

then you do have something to moan about

seiglinde... I don't have a sturdy provider in the wings.. I am the sturdy provider. ... I actually have very little to complain about (in this context).

So yes, the author could return to work (I know I did) - but I guess the question is if you feel obliged/compelled/want to stay at home longer - how do you adjust to the life change and is it not reasonable to expect not to be/feel completely isolated?

I know I am going to sound very Xenia like now, but if you don't give up your earning power - you don't have to make that adjustment... which leads to the next point from ssd.

If you can't afford help -then you are probably entitled to TC support to go back to work..which would at the very least give you the headspace break.

Snowmama, I am also the sturdy provider [mimes knees buckling]. It's perfectly reasonable to FEEL isolated, but motherhood is a life change for everyone. If you don't give up your earning power, you still have to make other adjustments, like leaking breasts in meetings, trying to stay awake in same after a nearly sleepless night, and crying on your way to work because you left your baby with a slightly sniffly cold or crying 'Mummy, mummy.' You also still take a career hit because you no longer spend hours schmoozing in the pub. But perhaps our kind have/had less time to write about it.

Ha ha. My knees feel a little creak this morning! Yes, you are completely correct (as I mentally tick off each and every point on your list!).

Sorry, SAF... I am thinking out loud and not necessarily thinking through before posting.

I really don't think that you need to be 'missing' anything to have a right to struggle/feel isolated or just find motherhood really hard.

I do think working offers you more freedom and control over your life (but would not say therefore everyone should take this route).

I also still think that the individualistic nature of UK society drives isolation (and division ) in motherhood. So, it is a bit controversial to say pay for help, or you have to be really grateful to your family if they help you out. Or as with this (and the other thread) - get judged for saying motherhood is very hard.

If you cant afford it its best to get TCS and just do it that way. I get all mine paid for me and my daughter was in 3 days since 4 months, then 4 days at 8 months and now 5 days. Thats why TCs I think are really brilliant cause you wouldnt get that in the past.

.. the 'emotional price' of support from family is (maybe for different reasons), is precisely why I pay for most of my support network.

True enough...

all I can say to this is "we all get by as best we can with the resources available to us in a society that does not value childcare or mothers and tries to make domestic labour invisible." .. is amen sister.

My point about invidualism and community was not a nostalgic hark to the past, I have always been wrong, different, not quite right, to a straight up, 'normal', community (UK or African). It is more about is it possible (and maybe it is not) to be more collaborative in my approach to life.

My point about the last year -was that for the first time ever, I have been able to construct a community of people around me - some I employ, some I don't ,who are able to support me, and enable to to function within the limitations you describe.

By support, I don't mean holding my hand - but can be trusted to care for my kids my absence, can be trusted to respect my career decisions and support them, can be trusted to have a little fling with - without demanding a relationship and all the male/female dynamics that come with it - it is in an odd way the most fluid, open lifestyle I have ever had.

To me this is exciting because it simply offered me a glimpse of lifestyle I had not considered - and a bit of freedom from the relentlessness of being a woman and mother in in an unsympathetic world.

But Dittany other than every woman who goes in to a marriage/relationship ensuring that a man does what she wants him to and proves his worth to her what other suggestions are there? That is by far the best way, and I think the only real way to ensure an equal partnership.

xposted - dittany - yes exactly. Do we all just say en-masse 'no not playing any more'....

But Dittany, I can't see that this is the point. Rather, the point seems to be that the breadwinner gets a free pass out of housework. Not sure this has anything directly to do with gender. Any lesbian/gay parents to comment?