Why is thin ''in''?

[poshsinglemum]

Just wondering really. I have curves but I don't think I am fat yet I feel that I have to diet etc to fit some mysoginistic ideal. Do men really prefer thin women?

What is my friend who is a successful consultant missing out on?

Dieting is not stopping people being successful. What are you imagining,... give me a specific example. Sylvia misses the promotion because she only ate half a sandwich.

More likely to be, Sylvia misses getting the promotion because she asked for flexi-time due to child care issues, and now is stuck at home feeling unsuccessful and bored. Eats some biscuits, feels like shite....

I have always been naturally skinny so have never felt any pressure about body size as I am a very small size (and always will be) the same size. I think people do treat you differently and it means you dont have the same insecurities.

As I am the size that is 'in' as such it means I dont worry about dressing up in expensive stuff, loads of make up, regulating what I eat, fake tan etc as I already think I look like I should and wouldnt want to change it. People seem to overuse those types of things to make up for feeling bad about their bodies. That is just what advertisers want people to do obviously.

I suppose that means I have it easier so it is harder to put myself in others position I do look at other people doing it though and think its pointless. They spend so much time worrying about a lot of rubbish about preening and pampering or feeling bad about themselves, instead of enjoying life. Seems like a waste to me.

I think that is why some other people feel bad about it as they are chasing something they are never going to achieve. Excess fat is not good of course but to a certain extent you a born a certain way and wont go any lower than a certain weight without it not suiting your frame.

But why do they treat you differently for being slim?

Looking young and healthy is a massive status symbol these days - massive because it is actually quite hard to achieve (requires time, money and education to maintain good looks and health with the passing years), a lot harder than achieving a lot of material status symbols.

Men also like to stay looking slim and youthful - ask in any expensive man's clothes shop and all the shop assistants will tell you how older men are getting slimmer.

Biryani, just read yr post re Naomi Wolf. V interesting! But think on past the hello. If a man is just looking for sex, then maybe he's programmed to like The Iron Maiden.How about when he's tried to engage her in conversation? I've got a theory that people who fit the media's definition of good looking/beautiful don't ever have to come up with much else other than their looks to attract attention/friendship/sex/work/money initially. While those of us (and I do mean US) who can't rely entirely on looks are far more resourceful and interesting human beings, who could be entertaining company for longer than five minutes.

There have been studies (I have seen them referenced in books but sorry, can't link to them) which show that your brain function is negatively affected by restricting your calorie intake. And have you never tried to concentrate on something at work when you were hungry, and given up and gone to get a banana?

I'm a bit at this;

"I really don''t believe in society's tool of control.

We have education, we get jobs as lawyers, barristers, doctors. What is stopping women from living and being successful in their own right, free from oppression?"

That's not my experience or that of the women I went to school with. We are not barristers or doctors. You can blame class for that, and that is certainly partly to blame, but when I was 18 and looking for a job the positions open to me were NOT as well paid as those open to my male friends - for example I earned £100 a week as a secretary, whereas my boyfriend at the time earned £300 a week as a roofer, and you can say what you like but there is NO WAY a woman would have been given that job.

It is NOT a level playing field. There was a thread a while back about earning potential in non-graduate jobs I think, "male" jobs are generally better paid.

Dittany - "Also by creating an ideal that women can never live up to (even the most beautiful models are airbrushed), women are made to hate ourselves and our bodies and want to change them. A woman who is at war with her own self is very unlikely to take the fight outwards and attack what is really oppressing her. The focus must remain internal and on what she must do to change herself."

That's EXACTLY what I was trying to say, thank you.

Snowflake, I'm glad you seem so confident and happy with yourself, but can you explain WHY you are impervious to pressure to be thinner/browner/younger? How can I help my daughter grow up to consider herself perfect just as she is? What influences have made you so happy and confident?

I really don't believe the dieting industry is a tool of control.

There are LOADS of other things keeping women back.

Class, money, looks, finances, child care.

Not the fact that they waste time on trying to stay thin.

I say that is a product of oppression, rather than a tool of oppression.

Wutker - I suppose people eat and buy the food the advertisers sell, sometimes eat to excess because they are depressed/comfort eat, then go out and buy clothes, make up, tan etc repeatedly. Still dont feel any better and carry on the cycle for their whole lives. Advertisers just do it to make the most money and a lot of people fall for it. A lot of people overeat or undereat due to emotional problems.

I dont know why. I think some of how I feel comes from being naturally slim but when I was young my mum never used to worry about these things. I always used to get asked at school wow how do you do it? do you eat? etc. I used to think the girls who about my weight were nuts because back then I never really thought about what I looked like in any depth and never really noticed others either. I didnt wear make up every day, shave my legs (still dont).

I suppose even though I was thin I have always been family orientated. My mum was and still is a really strong woman and I have never met anyone like her. She doesnt worry about what she looks like neouritically but always looks nice. When I was growing up my parents always had time for me. My mum and I went out every Saturday together. When I was younger remember saying everyone is shaving their legs I want to and my mum said dont do it once you start you will never stop and they will grow back rougher. I never asked again and have never attempted to shave them again. Same goes for make up my mum said dont wear foundation all the time it isnt good for the skin. She isnt a big make up wearer. She never been on a diet she just says everything is good in moderation. I think growing up thinking my mum doesnt do all of that and she has been married happily for 40 years, has a job she loves and is happy then why should I?

dittany - I am going to a breakfast debate (lots of business and journalism movers and shakers) in early January about the implementation of male-female parity on company boards. Wanna join me?

You don't think dieting is a tool of oppression but you list "looks" as something that keeps women back - I don't know what you mean by that and I can't see how you can separate weight and looks.

Sorry, I was addressing Marsha Brady there, thread moved a bit too fast far me!

Look I want to address this single point.

That women are wasting energy and are being held back by dieting.

I do not believe this is true.

I think there are a whole load of other things that hold women back.

You make it sound as if oh if only I wasn't so worried about being an 8-10 I would be a doctor by now.

That is what I am absolutely disagreeing with.

It is everything else that is stopping a woman being a doctor. Not dieting.

I am only disagreeing with this;

'but think how far we might have got if we didn't waste our energy dieting/thinking about dieting/loathing our bodies.'

It is not dieting that is holding us back. It is so much other stuff.

The only thing holding me back from anything at all is my own lack of talent, my own lack of skill and my own inability to do everything I am talented/skilled enough to do in the time available.

So I am in the happy/sorry position of having to choose among the many options available to me as to how I fill my time.

Thank you feminism

Yes I do feel fortunate that I did have the education to do what I liked, but didn't want to be told again I was being narrow-minded as per Dittany's post.

Or narrow focus rather! Not narrow-minded.

SO Dittany I am not ignoring inequalities. I am just saying they are not caused by women thinking too much about what size they are.

dittany wallows in being a victim, Marsha - it means she doesn't need to address her own shortcomings, since everything that is wrong with her life is, conveniently, the fault of men other people!

Men DO prefer thin women, in my experience.

The idea that 'they' (whoever they are, men at the top?) impose the notion of the ideal woman to hold women back, sounds bonkers to me!

Also images of men in advertising are hardly more representative. Every advert for male perfume shows a toned, good-looking man. Because it sells stuff! Doesn't hold men back....

Perhaps because so many people are now overweight, that thinner people are more rare and thus 'admirable'.

I don't remember weight ever feeling like an issue when I was younger, but there were very few fat people around. Now a lot of people I know / see are overweight to some degree.

Dittany are you saying that someone has made a conscious decision along these lines? ---

Those pesky women are getting ahead of themselves, I know lets introduce the ideal figure and airbrush some images that will keep them busy for while!

Or along those lines....

I am not saying it doesn't affect women by the way...)