Why is thin ''in''?

[poshsinglemum]

Just wondering really. I have curves but I don't think I am fat yet I feel that I have to diet etc to fit some mysoginistic ideal. Do men really prefer thin women?

I thought it was interesting why thin is now good. Rather than in the past or opposed to men.

I like being 8 to 10btw! Suits my frame etc

I don't buy the fashion designers are gay men at all, however. There are loads of great female designers.

You can't say all men as I've met loads that do like skinny girls, women. Models do ok for boyfriends I'm sure!

My partner prefers me thin, no doubt. LOVES me still now I'm a bit fatter. DEFINITELY prefers thin women. NO doubt. I fancy men who are not obese, too. That's just the way it is.
I recognise that this is stupid body conformism - but hey - I don't physically fancy fat people - neither does my partner - things change - you come to love some one more than anything, and then you don't want to have an affair - but I KNOW my partner finds younger, thiner women attractive. I'm not thick!
Not to say that you can't fancy someone intellectually...but still might not find them physically attractive.

Lots of men do like slim\thin women. But if you weren't especially thin yourself you wouldn't encounter them, because you would attract men who preferred your bodyshape. No man is going to say to you, out of the blue, 'actually I prefer women slimmer than you', that would be incredibly rude.

I like tall and 'cuddly' men, fwiw

I think you said it better than me, blushington - I meant that I was very thin when my partner met me - am less thin now - he still loves me - but he also still fancies very thin women...

BUT he loves me and knows me now - and we have a child togeteher, and I'm not worried - but thi is def his "type"

I can tell you now men 'in general' are not into the thin look honestly.

Only read the OP so prob someone has beaten me to this but I didn't think it was now, viz Mad Men curvy redhead.

ReindeedBollocks I'M naturally thin, and I'd agree with you that men want curves. Or at least, quite a few real men don't really care what women look like as much as we're all told they're supposed to.

Society, media and culture, OTOH is another issue entirely.

it's about money.
In the past, frail pallid waif = poverty
Today it represents the moneyed classes (with or without a tan)

Under patriarchy women's bodies and appearance are used as bargaining tools, to please men's eyes, but also to be sold in exchange for financial patronage (be that work, as a model, or in any job, or marriage).
What this means is IMO that men have always prefered a woman who appears classy: it boosts their own status in the male hierarchy.
When food was scarce, a plump woman did the job. NOw that high calorie food is mainly eaten by people lower down the socio-economic scale, skininess is valued.

I also think the proliferation of images of pale, frail women is a psychological thing. At my local Chanel make-up counter, the latest model looks like a cancer victim, complete with headscarf. Pale, sickly looking women are "in" because healthy, energetic-looking women are threatening.

I don't think this is what real men want, actually, and I certainly don't think it's beautiful, but this is definitely what media culture tells us they're supposed to want

Youth is also the other aspect. Under patriarchy, women are split up into chategories of desirability: the younger, the better (in patriarchy's eyes)
Again, I don't think real men are like this- , but culturally, young women are the only type of women that men are supposed to find desirable. It also has the effect of divide and rule among women. The pretty/the unattractive, the fat/the thin/ the old/the young. I'm sure the psychological effects of all of this are far-reaching.

ISNT, fascinating what you said about the ideal being a 3 yr old's body

The media basically sells aspiration, and aspiration largely boils down to wealth (in eyes of media) because it's the most widely held aspiration and if you want to sell something, you want to appeal to a broad an audience as possible. So from that-

• You're more likely to be fat if you're poor and being poor is never aspirational.

• Being thin these days is hard work- there's food everywhere. Being thin suggests self-discipline, suggests go-getter, suggests wealth.

In addition,

• In mags/ on the cat walk, designers want you to look at the clothes, not the models. It's easier to get the clothes to hang exactly as you want them (using clips and tucks) on someone who's basically straight up and down.

Note that in ads for perfume, makeup etc, the models are usually far more facially attractive than in those for clothes, because they're selling a different ideal.

Therefore, I dont think the media is selling a sexual ideal but a social one based on wealth. If they're trying to sell a sexual one they've failed. Most people prefer a partner somewhere in the normal weight range but most men do not prefer very thin women (i.e. of catwalk model proportions). Some do, just as some like very large women, but most people (men and women) prefer a partner who is in a healthy weight range.

All this what do men want is irritating. Men are mostly attracted to a pretty / beautiful face.

For me it's not about what others think of my size, it's how I feel, I need to lose about a stone not because my husband would like it if I did (he doesn't mind as long as I am happy) it's because I can barely fit into any of my clothes and that annoys me because I can't afford to buy more clothes and I also worked for hard for 6 months to lose nearly 3 stone in 2008 and I'm angry with myself for allowing the weight to creep back on. I have spent the past year saying oh I should try to lose weight but this year has been hard finacially which has been stressful, I've been working long hours and fitting in exercise hasn't been a priority, my work load is due to drop over the next few months so I am going to be losing weight.
Being over weight also affects my confidence.

LeninExcelsis- like where? Saudi?

Totally agree Lenin. My mother got very depressed a while ago about not finding clothes that suited her (fairly typical figure for someone who has had children and not exercised much over the years - generally fit but with a tummy). I was trying to explain to her that clothes are designed to suit the extremely thin, straight figures of models, leaving women of different shapes (i.e. nearly all of us) with just bigger versions of the wrong-shaped things.

For instance, this year is the first time I can remember where clothes have actually been in fashion for which hips/breasts and somewhat of a waist have actually been in fashion. I have a pretty normal pre-children body, probably would have been quite "in" in previous eras, but the last 10 years have demanded no bum and no extra weight on the thighs.

TBH I think partly it's a way to make us buy more things by lowering our self-esteem. The old "there are over 3 billion women who don't look like supermodels, and only 8 who do" thing. If you feel bad about yourself, you think you need more things to make yourself acceptable. It's like the teenage girls who plaster themselves in horribly thick make-up, fake tan etc, not because they're vain usually (though accused of it), but because they hate themselves and they way they look when they take it all off. Think of all the money they are pouring into fucking Loreal and Max Factor's pockets.

"thin women look more like men than voluptulous women"

you are confusing thin with a lack of curves - I am a curvy size 8, with an hourglass figure, I know plenty of heavier women with relatively small breasts and apple shapes, who look more masculine. Curves are determined by genetics and hormones as much as BMI.

Insisting that men generally are not interested in slim women is silly - it does not reflect reality. It is like pretending that women are not interested in tall men, or that they find fat men more attractive. Some will of course, each to their own. At risk of being "what about the menz" men do also feel pressure to maintain a healthy weight.

However fashion designers do appear to have the ideal of a slender teenage boy in mind.

That's quite true I think. I've certainly noticed over the years that an awful lot of clothes seem to be made to fit the 'straight up and down' or even 'apple' shape.
I'm also an hourglass and have been a 10 and a 14 - now a 10-12, but whatever size I am the problem remains.
The irony is that the hourglass is seen as the iconic womanly shape, yet clothes don't seem to be made to suit it.
Maybe because it's not actually that common in the population as a whole, but you'd think some nod would be made towards accommodating what's suppose to be the classic female shape. We can't all stretch to Vivienne Westwood.
And, yes, being thin, as Unwind has pointed out, does not necessarily mean having a boyish shape.
I agree also that men are primarily attracted to a woman's facial features.

supposed to be .

Gay men run the fashion industry and make clothes for boy-shaped girls.

Youth is in vogue,. We are obsessed with it. Young = thin, girlish figure.

Thems there the reasons, imo.

I find it frustrating. Very hard to find clothes to fit my shape or suit my age, seeing as I am not size 6 and 18 yrs old.

As regards the 'what men want' thing? Well, they are suckers for all the media bullshit advertising imagery, too...but not the epic suckers us women all are.

I really do not think 'gay men' run the fashion industry.

Successful designers are backed by huge corporations. In return all they want to see is healthy profits.

So like anything, the designers that are successful are the ones that sell.

There isn't some conspiracy about 'gay men' dictating to women what we wear. The BUYER decides. It is a market place like any other.

Design stuff that really is for boys, that is too 'gay' and it will not sell.

baggedandtagged - I have been thinking that saris or tunic and trouser combo worn by indian colleagues and those complicated colourful wrap outfits worn by women from parts of africa would do the job better than the usual offerings in teh UK.

Apols for vagueness about where from and what the clothes are called, these things aren't my strong point!

I think the point about usual clothes being designed for one ideal and any other shape looks dire is a good point.

Women buy clothes that look good on models, because it is aspirational.

Aspirational because thin and beautiful is seen to be good.

With the fashion models thing I personally think it is as simple as that the clothes hang better on very thin & up and down people.

It is more difficult to get cloth to hang nicely around curves, and then you also need to tailor it to the curves of the particular model, which is not a desirable thing to have to do. You want the clothes and the models interchangable.

Couture is designed almost exclusively by gay men.

I think the argument that clothes 'hang better' on thin women is a complete fallacy.

Designers can easily make the clothes fit larger models imo. And they have.

Every so often a designer is in the papers due to using larger models.

It would be very interesting to know how and if it affects sales afterwards.