Ms or Mrs?

[ovumahead]

OK, all you intelligent articulate women here, help me! I just got married recently. I'd never really considered being a Mrs, to be honest I didn't put much thought in to it (?). When it came to changing my name on everything, I couldn't stand being a Mrs, so I put Ms on everything. I thought, well, women have fought for this, so why the hell not? Why should everyone know what my marital status is? (Besides, I'll be a Dr next year so it won't matter for too long...)

Apart from the contradiction, perhaps, in changing my name to my husband's (I did put a lot of thought in to that, and did want to, for complex personal reasons!), I don't think it's a big deal to be Ms or Mrs. I was Ms before on most things anyway. So why change?

I didn't discuss this with my husband, but it came up in passing when a letter came addressed to me as Mrs (obviously a mistake!). He asked me, light-heartedly, whether I was a hairy armpitted lesbian.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do find a lot of blokeish humour quite funny at times, and while I can see it wasn't a long, considered response from him, I did find myself giving him a brief lecture on why I'd chosen to do that. But I sounded like a hairy armpitted lesbian.

Now I'm left wondering - how can one overthrow these collectively damaging quips, if one sounds like a cliché when doing so?

And does anyone have a feminist opinion on the Ms or Mrs thing?

I kept my name (would never have changed it!) and have never bothered to change bank accounts from Miss - even our joint bank account is Miss. I probably mostly use Ms maiden name now as a matter of course as I do feel why should everyone know my marital status when nobody knows my husband's.

However, I do get post as Miss, Ms, Mrs maiden name and Mrs husband's name. Elderly relatives seem to be the worst offenders of the latter.

OK, I had very strong views about Mrs when I was younger - I was always Ms, there was no way I was going to be seen as an adjunct to some man etc etc.

I got married, and carried on with Ms Maiden Name. Then I had twins. All of a sudden I was referred to as Mrs Maiden Name, which sounds like my mother and not me. Spent many a pointless time explaining that yes, I'm married but kept maiden name, don't want to be called Miss cos I'm not, that Ms can refer to married people as well etc.

Bottom line is that I changed my name to Mrs husband's name. His is boring, my maiden name was unusual. But, you what? It doesn't matter. As I've got older I realise that Miss, Mrs or Ms, I'm still me, with my loud mouth and outspoken opinions. Sometimes I embarrass DH. But actually I'm proud that we are a partnership & glad I've taken his name.

So, I can only say - go with what you feel comfortable with. You can change it later if you feel like it.

So I'm not a hairy armpitted lesbian? Jolly good! I'll tell hubby tonight.

I am a staunch 'Ms'. I would have a real problem changing my name if I got married and don't see why everyone should know if I'm married when they wouldn't know if my husband was married or not.

If there was an equivalent term for men, it wouldn't bother me, but there isn't. Master and Mr are not used in the same way as Mrs and Miss.

I have heard that in some countries - France, Germany etc - the equivalent of "Miss" is now only used for young girls. Everyone is either Madame or Frau. I can't remember where I heard this but it was some time ago and I remember liking it!

Oh, and a friend who was countersigning a recent passport application, signed me as "Miss". I wasn't happy! When I explained that I was a "Ms" and my reasons for using the term, he said that it sounded as if I felt threatened in some way.

I reflected on this afterwards and thought that, if anything, it makes men who see this as a problem look as if they are feeling threatened. If they weren't threatened or had a problem with it, they wouldn't feel the need to pick up on it.

But that's me.....

There seems to be widespread confusion about what Ms actually means, apparently lots of people think it's a title for a divorced woman, and now it means lesbian? When surely the whole point is that it doesn't give any information about the woman's marital status or sexuality, equivalent to Mr for men. So from the feminist point of view I think it's important to have Ms and would like to see it more widely used, so you don't have to define yourself by your marital status (unless of course you want to!).

I'm planning to keep using Ms (until I'm allowed to use Dr :))and keep my name, however I checked my armpits just now and they are indeed rather furry at the moment so your H may have a point...

I don't like being called anything but Omar but opt for Ms if I have to. I would love to be a Dr, no more agonising.

Nursery call me Mrs Partner'sname and it drives me mad - they kmnow my name well enough to send out the bloody invoices.

i am marrying in a few weeks and intend to be Ms maiden name, i've been setting stuff up as Ms maiden name for years now but am still Miss maiden name on my bank account from when i was a child.

i will be happy to be referred to as mrs married name if my husband and i are doing things together (meal reservations, hotel rooms) and i intend to be happy to be mrs married name if we manage to have children as they will have our married name. and we will be 'the married name family' as a collective, i'll just still be ms maiden name as an individual (e.g. at work, on facebook, email etc.)

In Dale Spender's book 'man made language' she said that historically 'miss' meant 'young woman' and 'mrs' meant 'old mature woman'. It had nothing to do with status.

I'm sticking with 'miss' until I get my pension, marriage or not.

That's interesting foreverastudent, sounds similar to the way Mademoiselle/Madame and Fraulein/Frau are being used in France/Germany now, maybe not such a new idea after all!

My DW uses Mrs Myname.

I use Ms Myname for her, on anything I sign her up for.

I'm using Ms. Never married, but have two kids and now 40. Miss would be ridiculous now imo. But also, even if I were married, or still 22, now I think it's ridiculous that we have to declare so much. We have to be Miss or Mrs.. Men are just mr, whether they're 67 and divorced or 23 and acting 13..

ps, divorce your husband immediately.

Have always been and will always be a Ms. No-one's bloody business if I'm married or not*. Many people assume my surname is my dh's surname, so we both have our equal share of "hello, is that Mr [tribpot's surname]" and "hello is that Mrs [dh's surname]".

*I actually do wear a wedding ring, so potentially have to explain to myself how I justify one and not the other.

I am Ms Maidenname. DD has my DH's name. I was expecting some level of general confusion from work/nursery/HCPs etc, but noone has batted an eyelid.

Have found the same as tribpot that in day to day life my DH is Mr Pushme as much as I am Mrs Hisname.

Have always been Ms Myname since I first had a bank account (so 16 maybe?)

I have to say though that I don't like Ms simply from an aesthetic point of view (how to pronounce it?), and wish that the non-specific honorific (so so speak) was more elegant. I've always had a soft spot for Mistress, used in the old fashioned sense, I can quite see myself as Mistress Takver.

tribpot, surely the point with rings is that generally they are worn by both men & women - at least DH & I have matching ones, and I think that's pretty normal (not that either of us wears them much).

Says a lot though, doesn't it. A master is someone who has mastery, has power over their craft or art and has "mastered" (perfected) their particular line of work.

A mistress? Not quite the same connotations are they?

I will be Ms forever. When people question it, I ask if they'd like to be known as Married Harris, rather than Mr Harris.

I agree that from an aesthetic point of view, it's a horrible word. But unless there's an alternative I will carry on using it.

I was filling out a form online recently and Ms wasn't an option on the drop down list for titles. I had no choice....so I went for Dr even though I'm not one! It annoyed me so much!

I've been Ms.Myname since I was 17 or 18- whenever I opened a bank account. I didn't change it when I was married. I have always felt a little offended by the idea of my marital status being in any way relevant to anything.

another Ms here, but actually I'm only posting because I really like your username

arses - thanks I really like my username too!

When I've been telling companies and organisations about getting married and changing my name, they always say 'OK Mrs Ovumahead, that's all sorted!' and I keep having to say, 'Er, no, I'm not Mrs I'm a Ms, thanks'. I feel kind of awkward doing it, you can almost hear the eye rolling on the other end of the phone!

I'm just so surprised that these things are even remotely an issue. It just surprises me. I guess social evolution is slower than I thought.

Lenin let's not mention the unmentionable again. Sorry. Shouldn't be perpetuating such ridiculousness here!

And is it 'Mz' not 'Mizz'?

Jess in Avalon, I wsa trying to order something from America once, not that many years ago, and the options were Mrs or Mr. Idiotic. I put Mr. Mr *Naomi Singleton ordering petite length maternity trousers.