Ms or Mrs?

[ovumahead]

OK, all you intelligent articulate women here, help me! I just got married recently. I'd never really considered being a Mrs, to be honest I didn't put much thought in to it (?). When it came to changing my name on everything, I couldn't stand being a Mrs, so I put Ms on everything. I thought, well, women have fought for this, so why the hell not? Why should everyone know what my marital status is? (Besides, I'll be a Dr next year so it won't matter for too long...)

Apart from the contradiction, perhaps, in changing my name to my husband's (I did put a lot of thought in to that, and did want to, for complex personal reasons!), I don't think it's a big deal to be Ms or Mrs. I was Ms before on most things anyway. So why change?

I didn't discuss this with my husband, but it came up in passing when a letter came addressed to me as Mrs (obviously a mistake!). He asked me, light-heartedly, whether I was a hairy armpitted lesbian.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do find a lot of blokeish humour quite funny at times, and while I can see it wasn't a long, considered response from him, I did find myself giving him a brief lecture on why I'd chosen to do that. But I sounded like a hairy armpitted lesbian.

Now I'm left wondering - how can one overthrow these collectively damaging quips, if one sounds like a cliché when doing so?

And does anyone have a feminist opinion on the Ms or Mrs thing?

When I started working in admin I though Ms stood for Miss! I didnt realise for about a year and someone told me it is what you are called if you get divorced or are older and you dont want to be called Miss.

I dont think it matters really. I have been married years but I dont think anyone has ever called me Mrs except for on letters.

Personally I think that the opion of a form should be Mr or Ms, nothing else (well apart from stuff like Dr)

Surely the point of Ms was that is was just a title for a woman

I've been married for 8 years and think that I've been called Mrs Surname once (I changed my surname) when i was in a dentist waiting room - it took me a while to register who she was refering to!!! I am otherwise always called by my First name Last name in formal situaions (nor sure if this is just a trait for Ireland) but despite the fact i'm fairly certain that i won't be refered to by the title I do pause when filling in form over the Miss, Mrs, Ms options.

Often go for the Ms

I am dual National Swiss and Italian. When I got married I was not asked anything, the Swiss decided I was Mrs Husbandsname and the Italians that I was Mrs Maidenname. I do not mind at all the Mrs bit as I am indeed married and do not see that as a "defect"(sorry cannot find a better word) But I am please to be able to choose what I want people to call me becaue I have indeed not changed identity completely for the fact I am married. I use both names at my convenience.

To answer your question, I am Ms MySurname and will be for the rest of my life. My husband't title doesn't reflect his marital status, so I don't see why mine should.

And the reference to hairy armpitted lesbians is offensive.

I'm Ms myname and always have been. Am married but see no need to inform people of the fact as I have no desire to change my name.

I'm frequently referred to as Mrs Hisname or he is assumed to be Mr Myname as we have children with both surnames. I quite like the ambiguity actually.

I'm Ms Mysurname too.

If I get a sarcastic/snotty comment, I try to shrug it off (ideally with a witty come back but they often arrive in my head just too late...) I suspect the way to change attitudes is not to embark on long winded explanations of why we prefer Ms, but just give a brief non-defensive response and stick to your guns in using Ms.

The more people use it and give the impression that it is perfectly normal and doesn't need explaining, the more it will be seen as perfectly normal. (hopefully...)

Some of my best friends are hairy armpitted lesbians.

And should I ever accept Mr Inferior's repeated offers of marriage, I'm definitely not opting for a rebrand.

I was and am Ms Pip. But ex-DH and I did discuss and agree both our names before we were married.

I thought Sunny2010's colleague's definition of 'Ms' particularly amusing: 'what you are called if you get divorced or are older and you dont [sic] want to be called Miss'.

I can't stand Ms. I also am quite happy to have DH's surname -I would rather make a unit with him and our DCs than make one with my brothers. I don't think it really matters-do whatever you like-quietly.

After lots of deliberation and telling people i wouldn't do it I have half changed my name - but got sentimental (& lazy) half way through, so lots of things are still in my old name.
I often tell people that my husband did't mind if i took his name or kept mine - but he drew the line at taking on my maiden surname.
They normally laugh as if that would be unreasonable thing to do - no wonder he didn't want to do that etc. Then I carry on the conversation without questioning that his feelings about taking my name are exactly the same as my feelings about taking his name "yeah - your name is just who you are, isn't it? or the whole thing just feels a bit weird in 2010)
Sometimes it makes them think for about a nano-second.

On the miss/ms thing.
My dad was the first person to address me as Ms - when i went to uni at 18 he redirected post to me & filled out a few forms for me as Ms xxxx. It meant that i was no longer a child in his eyes and I loved it - it kind of felt like he was giving me a big compliment (we have a very NON touchy/talky relationship) and I used Ms ever since (but am sometimes mrs newname now).
Incidentally, he also bought and gave me my first feminist book when i was about 15. Probably why I don't get people who think feminism is anti men.

I kept my name and DS has my surname not DH's. All this means is that DH is occasionally called Mrs Sanfair but he's not bothered.

Lol at motherinferior.

A friend of mine who was once called a hairy legged lesbian when it was obviously meant to be an insult answered 'So what? What's wrong with being a hairy legged lesbian?'. Apparently, this left the man a bit flummoxed.

I'm not married but am always Ms Myname.

DP moved in with me so all the bills have traditionally been in my name and paid from my bank account, he is constantly referred to as Mr Myname, I have hardly ever been called Ms/Mrs Hisname although I often get Mrs Myname.

DS is Master Myname which has left even more people thinking we are Mr and Mrs Myname

Becoming Dr may not help, my mum is Dr and mail was constantly addressed to Dr and Mrs not Dr and Mr. It seems some people had difficulty believing that a woman could be the Dr...

I am Ms Mysurname too - and will continue to be, as we've not got married (had a celebration instead of marriage - would perhaps have considered a civil partnership if it had been available to straight couples). DD is Miss Mysurname Hissurname! It would have been the other way round for her surnames except that it sounds best this way round.

Calling myself Ms does often require correction - tradespeople in particular seem to default to Mrs, but then they did that before DP even came along. Ah well.

On the mrs/miss/ms thing: I never knew that Ms is similar to the Frau / Madame / Signiora approach in Germany, France,Italy. I can speak for the use of Frau: although it used to be used only for married women many years ago, it is now considered rude to use Fraeulein (=miss) in official situations. So even young women from 18 years on are called Frau. I totally agree that the marital status is no ones business, hence will be using Ms proudly.
PS: I gather in France / Italy, the use of Mademoiselle / Signorina is more flattering - not sure about there.

another married Ms Ownname here. I do get called Mrs DHName quite a bit by school etc, not too bothered. However do get cross that ten years down the line nearly all my friends address my birthday cards to Mrs DHsurname, maybe I didn't tell them I wasn't changing and they all assumed, or thought it was just for work, I would feel a bit petty making a fuss about it after all this time. If anyone has got any suggestions as to how I could diplomatically do so that would be appreciated!

ovumahead once you are a Dr, you might find you receive letters addressed to "Dr and Mrs Married Name". I know I did. Can't possibly be the female with the doctorate, can it? (my armpits are not hairy, btw)

as for your title... personally, I don't care whether I am a Ms, Miss, Dr, Whatever. Though the "Dr" can be handy for sounding high-handed to people who deserve it! However, I have just spent the last 2 years getting my name changed back to my own. The admin is unbelievable. Should DP and I ever marry, there is no way that I am changing my name. It is just too much faff.

I would like to scrap Mrs and Miss and have Ms

I am Mrs and I am not the property of anyone!! I wouldn't have married anyone who thought that I was! I utterly refuse the Ms (can't even pronounce it) and I am not Miss. I really don't care whether anyone knows I am married or not, but I prefer to have the same name as my DH and DCs than brothers and nephews.

I've used Ms since I was 14, encouraged by mother who is, admittedly, a hairy armpitted lesbian.

It made things much easier when I got married as didn't have to change anything from Miss, which is surely faintly ridiculous thing to be called if you're married?

Lenin I'm with you on the HAPL thing. People use it as shorthand for "feminist" to undermine feminists, because they make the homophobic assumption that HAPL is an undermining thing to call someone.

OP you seem to be using HAPL in a jokey way, but I'm left unsure if you would actually mind if someone thought you were a HAPL.

Everyone thought I was a lezzer at school and uni (well I had short hair and it's obviously hereditary), I could rarely bring myself to correct them, in case they thought that I thought it was a bad thing to be, iyswim!

These days hairyeverywhere DH, DS and large bump kind of spill the beans that I've been doing the nasty with t'other lot...

When I get married it is going to be Mrs [myname] or Miss [Myname] since as a teacher I think the daily battle of right to use Ms will just be too much. Kids don't get it. As for keeping my name I actually don't have a choice in that. My OH has told me in no uncertain terms that a woman taking a man's surname is a crazy outdated sexist notion. He's from Catalonia (Barcelona area of Spain for those who wondered) and there it simply isn't done any more. He is known as (here at least)
Mr [fathers first last name] [mothers first last name]
and he says our children will be
Mr/Miss [His first last name (so the part of his name from his dad)] [My last name]

I do think these crazy Spaniards make it overly complicated :)

I am Dr Maidenname and Mrs Marriedname. It seems to work quite well but I do prefer the first one - it seems more like me.

I am Ms Myname. I have been since I was about 14 and I am also the daughter of a lesbian but of the non hairy arm pit variety.

I always think of Miss as being for little girls. And I'm not married. But even if I was I don't think I would become Mrs Hisname.

I have spent 34 years being me and wouldn't feel comfortable changing my name now.

There are 5, soon to be 6, of us with me, DP and the DC and only two of us have the same surname. The rest of us are all combinations of surnames, and I have never had any problems with it, with regards to schools, doctors etc.

I struggle with Mrs as it feels like I would be changing my identity to become a name that exists only in relation to my marriage to DP. So if we do ever get around to getting married (instead of pregnant every time we seriously discuss it ) then I will remain Ms Myname.