Discussion on Women's Hour about harrassment on the streets

[LadyBiscuit]

Did anyone hear this? I am absolutely furious. They had a woman from the London Anti Street Harassment campaign and a male journalist. He was saying that feminists were effectively trying to silence men and deny them a voice by campaigning against harassment.

Sorry I'm being very inarticulate but I was so cross.

I shall post a link when it's up on Listen Again.

Here's the link to have a listen.

I truly think some people should be given the 9 to 5 treatment and trussed up in a room somewhere until they admit that they are painfully twatty wankers who delight in stamping all over other people's rights for the sake of a cheap laugh/gaining attention.

Do you think Brendan has harrassed people on the streets? I would imagine he would be one of the boys who hung round the back wetting himself with admiration of the bigboys who dare to shout out to girls.

On a different note, I got asked out by three old men in their 70s/80s today. I was doing a survey for work and after they'd answered my questions they asked me what I was doing tonight :O Funnily enough I wasn't insulted.

meant :o

I do think it would be an excellent piece of feminist direct action to follow Brendan O'Neill around shouting abuse and threats at him and see how he likes it.

I suppose he lives in London though doesn't he?

As I said before, if he wants to make a case for why the importance of free speech outweighs the harm caused to women, fine, he should make that case. But he isn't - he's just denying the problem.

I just went onto his website and see he has been labelled a "smug shite" by Peter Tatchell. I bloody love Peter Tatchell, couldn't believe the poor guy sustained permanent brain damage when he was beaten up at Moscow Gay Pride.

Howl at "I don't think I've hated a man so much since the Pope"

Hurrah for dear old Peter Tatchell. What irritates me the most is that programmes like Woman's Hour (which I usually love) wheel out journalists to comment on real issues like this as if they are some kind of important social commentator on the issue. They've got an MA in journalism and suddenly they're qualified to pronounce on life as if they are Stephen Hawking (or someone equally intelligent). You may as well drag in one of those tossers that shout abuse at women on the street to hold forth.

Here's what he looks like if you wish to have some banter with him on the streets of London:

Brendan o'Neill

Oh he looks exactly as I'd imagined him. A smug, arrogant, in love with himself, twat.

Did you see he has linked to this? private thoughts of a wanker

Anyone got a message for him?

The tube really is a hot spot of frotting and wanking.

In the end I got so sick of the wanking thing, that once I jumped up and yelled "look, this mans got an erection, and he's so proud he's showing it to me, does anyone else want a look?"

Bastard got really offended by this...and most of the carriage were embarassed, but at least the shit got off at the next stop.

I think the worst ever cat call I experienced was when I was walking about 4:30pm in broad daylight in a London street and a little boy of about 6 was playing up and his dad said "if you don't behave I'll get that woman htere to suck you cock for you." I was so stunned it didn't register for a while and I was hurrying for a bus. I wish now I'd run back and punched that bloke till it hurt.

Good grief. What an ignoramus. I was especially fascinated to note that Vicky described the comments she received from these men as 'sexually explicit' and he then went on to say she was 'complimented'. Is he really that dim that he doesn't see any difference?

There is also a big difference between a woman telling a strange man that he has a nice bum (although also not appropriate in my book) as she is less likely to be a physical threat.

A point I think was missed, was that a 'compliment' will often escalate. It starts as 'nice legs', and will often get more sexually explicit.

'Yesterday I was on BBC Radio 4?s Woman?s Hour, debating with a feminist whether we need tougher laws against sexual harrassment. You can listen to it here. Mumsnet, the middle-class mothers? website beloved of political leaders, now wants to get a mob against me for what I said.'

Mr O'Neill, you are a self-satisfied, smug, 'I'm right about everything' nob. Try reading the messages on here and actually engaging with them. And the woman you were in discussion with wasn't, in your dismissive tone, 'a feminist' but an intelligent and determined woman who is just like the rest of us, feminists or not, who have been verbally harrassed on the street from our teenage years. You are not as important as you think you are.

Miggsie am at your post. Presumably Mr O'Neill (nob) you would dismiss that as banter or flirting on the dad's part?

DH has just commented on this. He wondered if O'Neil would still think it was not a problem if the person who complimented him on his bum was a big man who then followed him home at night making more and more explicit comments.

I think this would be a much better 'About' for his website:

Brendan O'Neill is a smug, self-satisfied twat who is so far removed from real people's experiences that his entire life is an intellectual game. As a result of which, he has few friends, but consoles himself with fawning soundbites.

That's a lot more honest I suspect

ccpccp 1 in 3 women having had a stranger masturbate in front of them sounds about right to me.
I've had it happen to me a few times. How about a quick straw poll. Mumsnetters? Has it happened to you.

The first time I was only 13 and on a train carriage alone with this man. I ignored him but I was terrified and didn't know what to do.

Sanfair - have a look at the commuting etiquette thread. Lots and lots of comments there about unpleasant wanking-related experiences on trains.

Brendan baby, why do you refer to Mumsnet as 'the middle-class website'? Does being middle-class somehow diminish our experiences? And, unless know every woman who posts on here personally, you'll be surprised to know that there are actually women on here that aren't middle class, and, even more wonderfully, no-one knows whether they are or not! Alright sweetheart?

I have had this happen to me, in another country where I was spending a lot more time in cities than I usually do in the UK. He was next to me on the bus, looking down my top and grunting and had his hands stuck down his trousers but it was more than obvious what he was doing. Even though my (male) friend was with me, I just kind of froze and didn't say anything about it til after we'd left the bus.

LB - I think you are right.

Brendan O'Neill, it strikes me, must have either zero compassion full stop, or a deep and toxic hatred of women. Anyone who can listen to those women (and read what's on here, which you can bet he has), and claim that "speech" is the holy of holies, and trumps any right for women to not be abused or terrified - well I wouldn't trust him on a dark night that's for sure.

This isn't self-pity that's being expressed here, this is anger for ourselves and for future generations of women, and I imagine that's what scares him. When a man no longer has the right to comment on a woman's body or clothing or what she'd be like to fuck, or what he'd like to do to her - what will the poor little Brendans do then?

WRT "middle class" thing - I think what tossers people mean by this is that most posters can string a sentence together. There is f-all else to go on after all. So presumably it's their assumption that coherent writer = middle class. Which, er, says more about them than about MN.

Yes, it's a mob when we talk about doing it to him.

It's a compliment when men everywhere do it to us.

How does that work again, Brendan? Could it be that YOU are the little fainting wallflower?

I thought MN had done surveys into average income, education level etc - re the class thing, I think most of us are middle class though definitely not all & you can't tell with an individual.

But I'm not sure what point B'O N is trying to make by mentioning it.

Ok sitting here thinking of all my personal experiences of harassment etc... including getting groped at my front door while I was trying to find my key, about six months ago...especially shocking because the level of harassment has faded so much now that I'm over 40, I am just not braced for it in the same way any more.

BUT it is true that maybe there are enough laws on this. Maybe they just aren't enforced? He may indeed be a complete tosser who has no idea what the reality of being in public possession of a vagina is actually like, but that doesn't mean we necessarily need a whole lot more laws, do we?

What about if we all complained to the police about this more often? What law could harassers potentially be prosecuted under?

I think the middle class comment was the same as calling Vicky Simister a feminist. He was being derogatory - obviously as a Living Marxist the ultimate sin is being middle class.

I asked DH tonight why he had never and would never indulge in calling comments at women in the street (DH has many failings but this I know he would never even dream of doing). He said 'well it's derogatory isn't it. It's disrespectful. Why would I do it?' That's exactly it Brendan - if a man who isn't actually that academically qualified, who would classify himself as working class (therefore probably ok in your book) and quite an ordinary bloke can comprehend that making sexual comments to women aren't banter or flirting then I'm sure that you, with all your journalistic credits to your name can manage to make that leap of intelligence.