Porn

[msrisotto]

Tentative!

Um, the way I see it is that a lot of porn (I have heard) is appallingly violent and degrading for women. This stuff, ideally wouldn't exist and should be banned (how, I don't know, but ideally).

However, the porn that I have seen or enjoyed is not. I wouldn't enjoy porn that is degrading.

So, why is all porn bad? (in some people's opinions?) If it isn't degrading and is equal in its approach, for the entertainment of others, then I don't see any harm.

Is the argument that you don't get the 'good' porn without the bad?

Don't flame me please, I really want this to be a considered conversation.

Dittany - could you explain what you mean by orgasms are not really important?

I'm not necessarily defending porn and I don't think porn actresses are glamourous, empowered women.

I just think there are some very poor arguments put on here about whether it is ethical or not.

I don't think work is ethical really. Paying someone to spend their life in an office away from their family is unethical in my mind. But it's legal and it's acceptable in our society. It is acceptable to 'compensate' people for disadvantage, whether you're buying their time, body, physical or mental energy, ideas...

In my mind, these should all be given freely and sex should be no different.

Sunny, I think that comparing porn to things like homosexuality or marriage is not really appropriate. In a homosexual relationship consent can be gained from the person in front of you, so it is hard to accidentally become involved in exploiting that person. Sexual exploitation is a far bigger issue in the sex industry than it is in homosexual relationships.

But I do think that rather than ban porn, we should be looking for ways to make it more ethical. I would suggest the following:

1. As so many people who work in the sex industry were abused as children, and as so many people who work in the sex industry had limited career options, the legal age for working in the sex industry should be 21. This would reduce the number of vulnerable young people going into the industry and consumers could be more certain that performers had made a free choice. It would also reduce the numbers of people watching 'virtual paedophilia' where the performers are adults but are presented as underage.

1. Pornography on the internet should be an opt in service through your service provider, to reduce exposure of children to pornography.

1. Material that sexually objectifies people should be only sold or presented in adult only sex shops.

"And I didn't expand the meaning of pornography to cover anything other than pornography. Please quote where I did that."

That's completely meaningless unless you give a clear definition of pornography.

Clearly the waters are muddied - this thread includes everything from Mr D'Arcy to webcam masturbation. I don't think pornography has any clear definition at all.

Well dittany the vast majoity of porn users never stop or wish to stop. A large proportion of adults watch porn and many more watch it than dont. Sex is normal and wishing to watch others have sex is normal and nothing will ever change that.

This is the most worrying thing about how porn has invaded our everyday lives. It has become so acceptable that it's become impossible to separate exploitative from consensual acts. Intelligent women will argue in favour of it.

How many girls do you think find it perfectly reasonable to have anal sex, although it's uncomfortable, although it does nothing for them, although they might find it a bit frightening, because their boyfriends think it's what you're supposed to do and because the girls have been brainwashed into thinking that is what they're supposed to do too and if they don't they are weak and prudish?

I have no idea, but I'm sure it happens, and it's because of porn being everywhere.

anal sex does feel good though. I do stuff anally when I am on my own as I enjoy the way it feels. Again just because you dont like it how can you decide what feels good to everyone else?

I don't think it is worthwhile for the industry to continue. I just think that given that it is very unlikely that there will be an international agreement on eradicating pornography, we should look at the more achievable aim of controlling it in the UK and changing the culture around it.

I am not arguing for a more ethical version of porn to exist alongside porn - I am arguing for it to replace the situation we have at the moment. While no porn can be ethical, some porn is worse than others. I think we could do a lot to reduce the pornification of our culture, and the risks to the most vulnerable people in the UK.

You didn't expand it, Dittany, Carmen did:
'What we're talking about is mediatising sexual acts, whether real or acted.'

I think after that statement, she assumed that that's what we were all talking about.

The first part of my comment was addressed to you, Dittany. The second part was a generic 'you' after I had talked about the general arguments on the thread.

However I am interested in your definition of pornography? Is it just around people paying others for sex or do you consider unpaid, recreational webcam masturbation to be pornography?

Sunny - it is normal in UK culture at the moment, but cultures change.

Sunny - I didn't say I don't. I said what if she doesn't enjoy it? What if she doesn't like it, but is too afraid to look like a prude if she doesn't do it?

lifeissweet - well if she is afraid to say she doesnt like it you could say what if she had sex and she wasnt turned on enough and it hurt and she was scared to say. Realistically if she doesnt say then this argument could go on forever as any sex act at all could hurt or be uncomfortable if the person wasnt doing it right and you didnt say anything.

MillyR - Even when porn wasnt around prostitution has been the biggest indiustry throughout history regardless. It isnt going to change so surely it doesnt make sense to push it underground.

I think my point was, that even 15 years ago when I had sex for the first time it was a level playing field. It was mutual exploration and it was exciting because it was new and we discovered things together.

Porn teaches young people that it's about putting women in positions and 'doing things' to them. There is too much knowledge of the mechanics and not enough of the emotional and connected side of sex. I think porn is spoiling sex for a lot of people.

This is possible because of adult people in their own homes watching these things and funding the sites. It is because people are uploading their videos. It is because we are all so accepting about it all. Young people can look to the older generation now and think that we condone this stuff.