So it would appear this topic is the Millwall of Mumsnet

[GothAnneGeddes]

Nobody likes us and we don't care.

I have to admit I lurk more then I post here, but to me, it's great being able to have everyday things discussed through a feminist lens, especially as most feminist websites are so US-centric.

It's just such a shame that so many women don't think that feminism is relevant to them. I just don't understand it.

Know what you mean Goth.

I take it you know of The F-Word www.thefword.org.uk/blog/ One of it's great points is that it is heavily moderated. There are quite a few other UK Feminist blogs as well of all stripes.

ooh, the millwall of mumsnet, i like that. Makes me feel like throwing something. In a good way.

I don't understand it either.

"It's just such a shame that so many women don't think that feminism is relevant to them. I just don't understand it."

Such a good point. Most women flit about without realsing that feminism is what allows them to 'be'
And then they play the 'Oh I'm not a feminist card..'

ANd I would just like to add to all the Mumsnet Menz who come in here moaning... Fuck off or we'll kick you in the cock.

And as always, SGB says what we're all afeared to [grin

What's sad about that SM?

Not sure which threads you have been on (my memory is sheeeeite) but I don't think most people on here could be called blinkered - I've had my views challenged and altered on here many times, so we can't all be agreeing with each other. Was there a specific thread that put you off?

for example...

Starlight, you felt the thread about care plans and prostitutes was primarily about disabled rights, other posters felt it was about prostituted women and a feminist issue.

I think it's a little hypocritical to accuse posters who were trying to talk about it from a feminist issue as being blinkered as you were equally determined to only explore it from a disabled rights perspective.

I've mainly lurked (but mainly because I struggle to put into words what I'm thinking/feeling). I believe that there are a lot of lurkers, so there is support but of a silent variety. I've heard this section mentioned in good ways here and there by non-posters in other sections.

For the most part it has been very enlightening and made me think differently about a number of issues.

However, it does sometimes get a bit silly and I often resort to reading through threads and ignoring certain posters (though one I ignore in one thread I read with much interest in another). Like anything, the more extreme views tend to lead and this, I think, is the impression that people go away with.

Hmm, but did you see that thing that tortoise posted about the Overton Window? I like the more extreme views posted here, because it moves the debate around. For example, you get one debate if one end of the debate is "women are naturally inferior" and the other is "inequality is wrong, we should all be nicer to each other. You get quite another if the debate ranges from "there are still some traces of inequality" to "it's all sewn up by misogynists to keep women down, here's how...".

The extreme views are indeed interesting and I've come to accept that it wouldn't be as good without them. Just trying to pinpoint reasons why people might not like this section on first glance. It does take a lot of brain effort sometimes. Not like the other sections where you can just pop in and out.

I don't think you can automatically assume that just because someone doesn't like this section, they aren't interested in feminism.

I think it could just as easily be that the "brand" of feminism (ie radical) that tends to dominate in this section doesn't resonate so much with them.

I also think there are some regular posters who can be pretty aggressive with anyone who disagrees with them, which can be pretty off-putting. Its not exactly the section of MN where free speech is really welcomed, ironically enough - I've tended to find that some posters assume that there is only one type of feminism, and if you're not with them, you must be anti-feminist.

So its not the most tolerant area of MN, and can be pretty brutal to participants. Fine if you can cope with that, but I suspect many posters are a bit gobsmacked that women can be so aggressive to other women when discussing feminism and what it means to be a woman, of all things.

The other reason I think its not everyone's cup of tea is because a lot of posters on MN are dealing with immediate issues such as DV, alcoholism in the family, divorce, SN, poverty. All-consuming problems which can make discussions about feminism seem like naval-gazing and indulgent (for feminism, you could equally substitute any political issue). Its not to say it isn't important, but it is true that when you are literally mired in the shit, your focus tends to be on getting out of the shit or finding some light relief from the ordure. The concept that someone could have time to spend on whether Half The Sky is imperialist bullshit or groundbreaking literature seems like a luxury that many on MN don't have.

THeBossofME,
I agree that free speech is not welcome here.

Feminists try to speak
People try to shut them up.

earwicga,
If the Fword is so great because it's heavily moderated i.e heavily censored, why are you on the MN feminist section?
And why is MN so huge and why is everyone on here instead of on the F word, which sounds rubbish if it is heavily moderated i.e heavily censored.

Censoring puts people off because we need freedom of speech if we are to call ourselves a democracy.

YOu don'T have to agree with people's opinions; you can ignore them, or you can use your power of boycott to stop visiting and supporting a particular website.

The day MN starts "moderating" (i.e censoring) freedom of speech will be the day I'm outta here

Sakura, I agree that many people try to shut feminists up. But I also think that there are feminists on this section why try to shut other feminists up because they don't agree with their particular viewpoint. As if there is only one kind of feminism.

There is both great debate and interesting discussion on this section, and also sometimes stifling of debate and discussion amongst feminists by feminists. I see a lot of one-dimensional blinkered preaching on here, as often as I see challenging viewpoints which are about debate.

I disagree.
If you believe something and post it then you have your say.
YOu don'T have to try to change other people's minds, but if you feel something wrong has been said then you can use all your powers of argument to try to get your own personal point accross.
A few days later you might come round and realise the other person was right after all.

I do think that there's a double-standard in htat if someone posts with a particular tone in AIBU then that's okay, but if someone posts in a defensive tone in the feminist section, they're behaving like an "angry feminist"

Earwicga did an extreme version of trying to shut the feminists up when she made the police threat. Thankfully MN didn't pander to that.

Starlight, the point of that thread was the ethical issues raised in the article, not the article itself

YOur argument was that the article wasn't true, which was a rubbish argument in the context of an ethical argument, because even after taking into consideration the political slant of the newspaper, it was still valid to discuss the ethical questions raised by the article.

I'm not talking about things like earwicga or fosh, those clearly belong firmly in lunacy corner.

And aggression is no more OK in AIBU than it is here, people get called out for it there all the time.

I just think there are some posters here who are generally not that interested in debate or listening to others, but are very interested in sermonising and converting.

I also get a little frustrated sometimes with the "feminism overrides any other kind of ism so its OK for me to be racist, disablist, imperialist so long as I'm a good feminist" thing that sometimes goes on. But that goes on in lots of fem fora, not just here.

BearTricks, having your posts cut and pasted is nowhere near the same as having police threats hurled at you, which is something that members of the feminist section have encountered by people who didn't like their views.
Or the rampant misogynistic attacks by people who specifically sign up just to attack you because their mates have told them about a MN thread on twitter

Or being told you can be threatened with a libel suit because you disagree with a powerful public person's misogynistic opinions.

Feminsts? Oh yes, we can cut and past your posts. That's what we've got in our arsenal