The older I get the less bad I think the Collins' marriage in Pride and Prejudice is

[BlackAmericanoNoSugar]

When I first read P&P as a teenager I was very caught up in the hatred to love romance of Lizzie and Darcy. I'm still a sucker for that sort of story arc. For a long time I thought Charlotte was cheated of a happy ending, I thought she deserved much better than Mr Collins. I still think that she deserved better but now that I'm much older I can see that it isn't an unhappy ending either.

I still wouldn't want Mr Collins for myself but I've been listening to Dr Octavia Cox on YouTube (she's great) on various aspects of Jane Austen's books and when she was talking about the nature of marriage and Austen's examples of good and bad marriages it helped to make it clear that, actually, Charlotte could have had a very much worse story arc.

Mr Collins, for all that he's annoying, isn't a bad husband. He clearly respects and listens to Charlotte, he allows her to direct him in a way that makes the marriage comfortable. For instance, she encourages him to work in the garden for his health, and he does. She has a lot of freedom to run the household to suit herself. I can't think of anywhere in the book that Mr Collins is rude or unappreciative of Charlotte, certainly not in the way the Mr Bennett often talks down to or is dismissive of Mrs Bennett. Mr Collins clearly feels that he chose his wife well, he likes his wife's family and gets along well with his father-in-law. She fits the advice of Lady Catherine, useful sort of woman and genteel enough to be in high-level company.

While she misses out on true love, there are lots of ways it could have been so much worse for Charlotte who didn't have good looks or a large dowry. She also seemed to have passive parents, for all that Mrs Bennett is a bit crude and pushy she is at least striving to get her daughters well-settled, Charlotte's parents don't seem all that bothered about her future. It would have been uncomfortable to be a spinster and reliant on her brothers for her whole life. She also might have ended up with a husband with a vice, eg abusive, a womaniser, a gambler, an alcoholic.

Better off than Lydia was with Wickham.....

Although Mrs Bennett is portrayed as a silly, melodramatic fusspot, she is actually a realistic woman with a clear understanding of the need to protect her daughters. Or, rather, to find protecters for her daughters. I agree that Charlotte is similarly realistic.

I think Jane Austen may have been quite 'forward' in presenting marriage being first a love-match, particularly among the gentry. Marriage was generally transactional, for status or security. So finding love first was actually unusual. Charlotte's marriage meat week have rejected the reality for many women, whereas Jane and Elizabeth's stories were the romantic escapism that sold a novel. And Lydia's, of course, the warning.

Yes, I always thought Charlotte had a terrible fate. But now I think she was a very sensible woman, who made the best of a raw deal. It’s not a choice I’d want to have to make, but it’s how it was. And she could have done a lot worse.

Well, she encourages him to work in his garden because she can't stand his company, but I do agree with you.

I completely agree. Charlotte is incredibly sensible and makes a good decision.

Sorry about the 'meat week' nonsense - DYAC. Should have read

Charlotte's marriage may well have represented the reality for many women...

Oh yes, Charlotte certainly did okay by landing Mr.Collins that’s for sure. Her window of opportunity for any kind of marriage was rapidly closing and she found someone with a fair bit to offer. Status, a wonderful benefactoress, an estate that he will inherit once Mr B pops his clogs, he’s not cruel, he’s not violent. He’s just very dull and extremely unsexy. But weekly coitus with Mr Collins would certainly be a decent exchange for escape from your parents’ house, run your own household, your own sitting room where you’re seldom disturbed.

I wonder what their children turned out like. We know they had at least one. Hopefully they took after Charlotte and mother and child had a lovely relationship.

Charlotte went into her marriage with her eyes open, and seemed content with her lot. For the time, and Carlotte's circumstances, Mr Collins was a good catch.

I agree, while Mr. Collins is an embarrassment and not the smartest, he is not malicious or violent. Many women would be stuck with far worse.

She did seem to go into it with a clear head, and a good understanding that it was a pleasant, secure lifestyle that was appealing to her. Plus, as far as I recall in the book she is 27, which in those days would be deemed an old maid . Maybe she wanted to get away from her parents and start her own life.

The major downside as far as I see it is having to deal with Lady Catherine on a regular basis, but again Charlotte seems to have a placid, accepting personality so didn't seem to mind.

She says herself to Elizabeth that she is not a romantic person, so maybe she wasn't holding out for Mr. Wonderful to sweep her off her feet.

I agree that Mr & Mrs Bennett are a far worse match personality wise, the simmering resentment is very obvious.

I can imagine her in middle age falling violently (but quietly) in love with a curate who moved to the parish, and having an earth shaking affair with him. Realistically she'd be too sensible to have an affair but they'd definitely have a soul connection.

I agree up to a point. I wonder if JA is comparing their boring but steady relationship to the whirlwind elopement of Lydia and Wickham which everyone knows is going to be an absolute disaster.

As I've got older I've also seen why Charlotte married Mr Collins.

She was also playing a long game. She'd grown up seeing the Bennetts as a principle family in the neighbourhood. She knew their house and estate. She also knew that no new Bennett boys would come along and disinherit Mr Collins. That meant she knew that once Mr Bennett died, she would have a position and be able to move closer to her family. Her son would inherit the estate and with Mr Collins also being able to hold the living on Longbourne she had a good financial future as well.

She chose well for sure

I always thought that it was portrayed as a good choice by Charlotte. She explains it well in the book.

@Dilbertian

Sorry about the 'meat week' nonsense - DYAC. Should have read

Charlotte's marriage may well have represented the reality for many women...

Thanks - I spent ages trying to work that one out!

A woman in those days could have ended up with a husband who beat her black and blue everyday and she wouldn't have been able to get away from him. I dont think Mr Collins is too bad he probably would adore their children and they would have been a content and financially secure family.

she encourages him to work in the garden for his health

No, it was for her own mental health that she encouraged him to garden!

How old was Mr Collins? He seemed 20 years older or so in the film - can't remember in the book. She could easily be playing the long game there.

@HollowTalk

she encourages him to work in the garden for his health

No, it was for her own mental health that she encouraged him to garden!

How old was Mr Collins? He seemed 20 years older or so in the film - can't remember in the book. She could easily be playing the long game there.

I have a feeling he was mid 20s. He'd been ordained at Easter which would imply he's around the same age as Elizabeth and Charlotte

Yes, I would agree - it sounds awful when you read it as a romantic teenager - but when you re-evaluate it as a middle-aged woman who's been around the block, it doesn't sound too bad at all.

Mr Collins was sober and solvent, not ill-tempered, diligent in pursuit of his vocation (a conscientious employee if a clergyman can be called an employee) and a dutiful husband. He probably become a decent enough father by the standards of the time. He was happy enough to be shunted off into the garden to give Charlotte some peace. He offered her some social life, even if this amounted to little more than a change of scene and free food, in the form of Lady Catherine and her connections.

He was certainly a much better option than a wastrel like Wickham and for those of us who are plain and a bit boring, there isn't and never has been a queue of rich, handsome, clever men waiting to marry us.

Nowadays, Charlotte would have the option of remaining happily single and pursuing a career, but back then, remaining single would have meant living on the charity of her family unless she became a governess, which would probably have been even more awful.

Ultimately, if she wanted her own house and place in society, marriage was her only option, and she could have done a lot worse.

Have you read 'Charlotte' by Helen Moffett? It's a bit of a stretch but I quite enjoyed it - I do like to think of Charlotte Lucas having a happy life.

The book 'the other bennet sister'

Is a well written 'spin off' considering life from Mary's point of view. In it she spends some time with the Collinses and it provides a nice window into how things might have worked out for them post P&P

Worth a read

I’ve just dug my copy out to look - she encourages him to work in the garden and says how wonderfully healthy it is for him, and Lizzie admires her ability to keep a straight face while doing so

Mr Collins was 25 going on 60 at the beginning of the book.

He's not as old as portrayed in films. In his late 20s/30s. Just a simpering and annoying toady man

I have a feeling he was mid 20s.

I think the book said he was 24. He was also described as tall, whereas the film versions usually have him as short.

Yes, she wants him gardening to keep him out of her way, but as far as he's concerned it's for his health. What's relevant is that she gives him advice and he listens to her and appreciates that she cares enough to give advice. He might be a bit of a dolt but he knows enough to realise that he has found a good wife and that a good wife is a very valuable thing, especially in his profession. She might not love and be loved but she is cared for and respected, and if you read the relationship board on here there are plenty of wives for whom that isn't the case even in present day when women are supposed to be equal.