The older I get the less bad I think the Collins' marriage in Pride and Prejudice is

[BlackAmericanoNoSugar]

When I first read P&P as a teenager I was very caught up in the hatred to love romance of Lizzie and Darcy. I'm still a sucker for that sort of story arc. For a long time I thought Charlotte was cheated of a happy ending, I thought she deserved much better than Mr Collins. I still think that she deserved better but now that I'm much older I can see that it isn't an unhappy ending either.

I still wouldn't want Mr Collins for myself but I've been listening to Dr Octavia Cox on YouTube (she's great) on various aspects of Jane Austen's books and when she was talking about the nature of marriage and Austen's examples of good and bad marriages it helped to make it clear that, actually, Charlotte could have had a very much worse story arc.

Mr Collins, for all that he's annoying, isn't a bad husband. He clearly respects and listens to Charlotte, he allows her to direct him in a way that makes the marriage comfortable. For instance, she encourages him to work in the garden for his health, and he does. She has a lot of freedom to run the household to suit herself. I can't think of anywhere in the book that Mr Collins is rude or unappreciative of Charlotte, certainly not in the way the Mr Bennett often talks down to or is dismissive of Mrs Bennett. Mr Collins clearly feels that he chose his wife well, he likes his wife's family and gets along well with his father-in-law. She fits the advice of Lady Catherine, useful sort of woman and genteel enough to be in high-level company.

While she misses out on true love, there are lots of ways it could have been so much worse for Charlotte who didn't have good looks or a large dowry. She also seemed to have passive parents, for all that Mrs Bennett is a bit crude and pushy she is at least striving to get her daughters well-settled, Charlotte's parents don't seem all that bothered about her future. It would have been uncomfortable to be a spinster and reliant on her brothers for her whole life. She also might have ended up with a husband with a vice, eg abusive, a womaniser, a gambler, an alcoholic.

I think he does love her, in his way.

Charlotte always seemed closer to the personality of Jane Austen than any of her heroines, to me. For one thing, JA bloody loved nice houses. None of the male romantic interests ever had as much description lavished on them as Pemberley did.

The Collins marriage clearly works for them, it's not a love-match but both are content with their relationship, None of the Bennett sisters would have been right for Mr Collins but someone as pragmatic (and kindly manipulative!) as Charlotte was perfect.

Gardening will tire him out, too.

@Deadringer

Gardening will tire him out, too.

Oh, yes, and likely give him a terrible bad back .

I agree.
There's bound to be more examples of situations that we thought were dire as young teens but would view more pragmatically as we age!

I was going to mention The other Bennett sister, WaltzingBetty. I thought that was a very good imagining of what the Collins’ life might have been like, and all the better for considering it from his point of view as well.

There's bound to be more examples of situations that we thought were dire as young teens but would view more pragmatically as we age!

I completely see now why Jo in Little Women chose Friedrich not Laurie - even chubby, beardy, middle-aged Friedrich as written in the book, rather than the handsome version you tend to see in film versions.

(When I first read it as a child, I thought Laurie by far the better option.)

Charlotte was 27 and so considered to be ' ' 'older' but Anne in Persuasion was also 27 and had a love match and her older sister Elizabeth was considering herself 'approaching the years of danger' at 29!
Mind you I think Charlotte knew what she was doing and was content

It would never have worked as well for Lizzie if she had accepted his offer. She would have very embarrassed by him and could possibly have ended up having her father's position in a marriage, where she lacks respect for her spouse and alternately ignores and snipes at him. Also, when she meets Lady Catherine she can stand up for herself against her, but if she was married to Mr Collins then annoying his sponsor would be very unwise and I think that not being able to defend herself from over-bearing behaviour would be very bad for her mental health. Also Lizzie wasn't brought up to be 'useful' and would probably have hated doing housework, it's just as well that she married someone with plenty of staff.

@TiddyAndFletch

I think he does love her, in his way.

I think he loves being a married man, which is close enough I suppose.

@Laska2Meryls

Charlotte was 27 and so considered to be ' ' 'older' but Anne in Persuasion was also 27 and had a love match and her older sister Elizabeth was considering herself 'approaching the years of danger' at 29! Mind you I think Charlotte knew what she was doing and was content

Charlotte is explicitly described as "plain", though, and doesn't have much of a marriage portion (there are a lot of Lucases) or aristocratic blood (Sir William is an elevated trader).

Elizabeth Elliott is the daughter of a baroness, an heiress, and acknowledged to be beautiful. Anne is also from aristocratic stock, but her making an excellent match aged 27 is still regarded as pretty remarkable, and a triumph of love over prudence.

When I did P&P in school it was always made clear that Charlotte could have done worse. It wasn't an excellent choice - he is a fucking idiot - but it's a sensible one and a very good one given the realistic choices open to her. She gets security, children, position, relative freedom, the prospects of future wealth, versus a Miss Bates-like existence as a penniless spinster living on the charity of her many brothers (who will be none too wealthy themselves, most likely) once her parents die.

I always wondered what happened to Miss Bates once her mother died. I can't remember whether it was explicit in the book but I always assumed that they were living on her mother's pension and that Miss Bates had no money of her own. I think that Mr Knightly would probably find her a cottage on his estate somewhere and invent a job of some sort so she could earn some money. He seems like a lovely man.

I agree.

I think he loves being a married man, which is close enough I suppose.

Yes, he would have a very clear idea of the duties of a husband, one of which would be to love and protect his wife and children.

I'm reminded of Jane Eyre's comment about St John Rivers being certain to perform all the duties of marriage even though they didn't fancy each other, which was one reason why she found the idea of marrying him intolerable.

I think Mr Collins would have been the same in this respect - made sure he 'performed' once a week - but he probably wouldn't have expected Charlotte to show very much passion - he'd have been shocked by the idea of a woman having strong sexual desires - so she could very easily get away with lying back and thinking of something else while he pumped dutifully to his climax.

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar

I always wondered what happened to Miss Bates once her mother died. I can't remember whether it was explicit in the book but I always assumed that they were living on her mother's pension and that Miss Bates had no money of her own. I think that Mr Knightly would probably find her a cottage on his estate somewhere and invent a job of some sort so she could earn some money. He seems like a lovely man.

Good question. I agree about Mrs B's pension. I think Jane Churchill would also have some responsibility to help fund her aunt and perhaps have her on long visits.

I have NEVER thought about the bedroom antics of the Collinses, until now. So thanks for that TiddyAndFletch.

I think Mr Collins would have been the same in this respect - made sure he 'performed' once a week - but he probably wouldn't have expected Charlotte to show very much passion - he'd have been shocked by the idea of a woman having strong sexual desires - so she could very easily get away with lying back and thinking of something else while he pumped dutifully to his climax.

Evidently they were managing somehow, judging by Mr. Collins' "expectation of a young olive-branch" yep, she wouldn't have been expected to do more than lie back. Still sounds pretty icky to me, but once she had the DC she wanted, she'd still be married and wouldn't have to "submit" any more if she didn't fancy it. It's not a pretty picture. But women have made worse compromises.

Once he'd finished she'd simply hand him a napkin to wipe himself and immediately encourage him to return to his own bed chamber.

Duty done for another fortnight.

To be fair if he looked like Tom Hollander it wouldn't be too awful. If he looked like the David Bamber Mr Collins though...

@FlumpyPoodle

To be fair if he looked like Tom Hollander it wouldn't be too awful. If he looked like the David Bamber Mr Collins though...

Even Mr Darcy wouldn't have stayed sexy forever.

This is true. And by 40 I'd have had a big rosy face from daily wine with my lunch and hips as wide as a doorway from birthing some heirs. And I'd have loved nothing more than telling people 'I used to be a great beauty you know!'

He absolutely WOULD stay sexy forever! You can’t steal my dreams like that

In fairness, it isn't as though Colin Firth looks awful - he just looks average now as opposed to smouldering. But don't we all 26 years down the line? the BBC series only finished a couple of years ago in my head but hey-ho

@TiddyAndFletch

In fairness, it isn't as though Colin Firth looks awful - he just looks average now as opposed to smouldering. But don't we all 26 years down the line? the BBC series only finished a couple of years ago in my head but hey-ho

Is it really 26 years ago? I prefer Matthew Macfayden as Darcy

Yes - it was 1995. I was a mere 21 ... .