The older I get the less bad I think the Collins' marriage in Pride and Prejudice is

[BlackAmericanoNoSugar]

When I first read P&P as a teenager I was very caught up in the hatred to love romance of Lizzie and Darcy. I'm still a sucker for that sort of story arc. For a long time I thought Charlotte was cheated of a happy ending, I thought she deserved much better than Mr Collins. I still think that she deserved better but now that I'm much older I can see that it isn't an unhappy ending either.

I still wouldn't want Mr Collins for myself but I've been listening to Dr Octavia Cox on YouTube (she's great) on various aspects of Jane Austen's books and when she was talking about the nature of marriage and Austen's examples of good and bad marriages it helped to make it clear that, actually, Charlotte could have had a very much worse story arc.

Mr Collins, for all that he's annoying, isn't a bad husband. He clearly respects and listens to Charlotte, he allows her to direct him in a way that makes the marriage comfortable. For instance, she encourages him to work in the garden for his health, and he does. She has a lot of freedom to run the household to suit herself. I can't think of anywhere in the book that Mr Collins is rude or unappreciative of Charlotte, certainly not in the way the Mr Bennett often talks down to or is dismissive of Mrs Bennett. Mr Collins clearly feels that he chose his wife well, he likes his wife's family and gets along well with his father-in-law. She fits the advice of Lady Catherine, useful sort of woman and genteel enough to be in high-level company.

While she misses out on true love, there are lots of ways it could have been so much worse for Charlotte who didn't have good looks or a large dowry. She also seemed to have passive parents, for all that Mrs Bennett is a bit crude and pushy she is at least striving to get her daughters well-settled, Charlotte's parents don't seem all that bothered about her future. It would have been uncomfortable to be a spinster and reliant on her brothers for her whole life. She also might have ended up with a husband with a vice, eg abusive, a womaniser, a gambler, an alcoholic.

Oh no!! It was a terrible situation for poor charlotte. She could see what an obsequious horror he was.

A former friend of mine did something similar. As 18 year olds I was amazed that she could stay in a relationship with someone she didn’t really feel attracted to and found a bit dull, but she saw potential. He was establishing himself in a career path where he’d be highly paid, had a good family background and was very dependable.
They now live in a large house in a very nice area, very contented with couple of children and she’s never wanted for anything. More than I can say for myself .

I know Charlotte made a very sensible decision that paid off for her overall but I just could not have put up with Mr Collins as a marriage partner for all the tea in Lady Catherine de Bourgh's drawing room. There would definitely have been a headline saying something like 'wicked vicar's wife hangs for putting arsenic in her husband's port'.

I hope Lady Catherine's daughter didn't marry. She'd have been rich as Croesus after her mother died, so why hand that over to some man. She would have been wealthy enough and aristocratic enough to thumb her nose to expected norms. I think a life as a scandalous lady is the least she was owed after years of being a little mouse in her mother's shadow.

Enjoying this rather niche thread 🤣

If Mrs Bennet died and Mr Bennet remarried and had a son, he could stop Mr Collins inheriting. Mrs B was convinced she'd outlive him, though, so I'm guessing he was older than her.

@TiddyAndFletch

If Mrs Bennet died and Mr Bennet remarried and had a son, he could stop Mr Collins inheriting. Mrs B was convinced she'd outlive him, though, so I'm guessing he was older than her.

I think there is actually a comment on how Mr B succumbed to Mrs B's youth and beauty, and then repented at leisure, so there is canon to back you up there

I doubt that the parents of a woman of child-bearing age would want their daughter to marry a widowed Mr Bennet anyway. As ever through the centuries, rich and powerful men can easily attract younger wives because they have the resources to make sure the women will be taken care of after their death (or the resources to bribe the woman's family enough to not care much about her future). Mr Bennet is merely comfortable and it would be a bit of a gamble whether a second wife could have a son in time before he died. If she doesn't have a son then she will be destitute and in the same position as the current Mrs Bennet. If she does have a son then he will inherit but he will likely still be very young when his father dies so the second wife would be responsible for the estate management, a young son AND five unmarried step-daughters.

so the second wife would be responsible for the estate management, a young son AND five unmarried step-daughters

Now there's a spin off novel in the making! 'The Second Mrs Bennet'.

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar

I doubt that the parents of a woman of child-bearing age would want their daughter to marry a widowed Mr Bennet anyway. As ever through the centuries, rich and powerful men can easily attract younger wives because they have the resources to make sure the women will be taken care of after their death (or the resources to bribe the woman's family enough to not care much about her future). Mr Bennet is merely comfortable and it would be a bit of a gamble whether a second wife could have a son in time before he died. If she doesn't have a son then she will be destitute and in the same position as the current Mrs Bennet. If she does have a son then he will inherit but he will likely still be very young when his father dies so the second wife would be responsible for the estate management, a young son AND five unmarried step-daughters.

I think a young women would agree to marry Mr Bennett if she was poor enough ie a lot poorer than the Bennetts.

Kind of feel for Anne DB having mr dishy Darcy in the bag through arrangement and then Lizzie turning up and ruining it all

*@Laquila

Enjoying this rather niche thread* 🤣

Ha! Aren’t we all!! 😂😂😂

ok… so who thinks that they might have a bit of a 'Collins-marriage' in their own life???
Hmmm?

I'm glad I live in 2021 and have choices beyond 'live out my days as a maiden aunt with no real home to call my own' or 'marry a man like Mr.Collins'.

Phew!

Agree. Women didn’t have a lot of options and this wasn’t the worst of hers

I would repeat to myself Mr Bennet's words to Lizzy: 'let me not have the grief of seeing you unable to respect your partner in life' (even though I think he said that in relation to Darcy rather than Mr C)

@DamsonJammyBastard

I'm glad I live in 2021 and have choices beyond 'live out my days as a maiden aunt with no real home to call my own' or 'marry a man like Mr.Collins'.

Phew!

Amen to that! Maiden aunt, governess, stultifying marriage, kept woman, destitution, prostitution, masquerade as a man so I can enter a profession or just get a job and spend my entire life in dread of discovery. Oh wow, which should I choose?

@Spudlet

I read The Other Bennett Sister last night on the strength of this thread - fantastic book. Mary is now my favourite Bennett girl.

Glad you liked it. It's great 😊

A woman in Charlotte's position would have been very happy to land a Mr Bennet, i would imagine.

I’d like to read about Mr Collins marrying Mary. It would be hilarious. They’d out-pious each other and Mrs B would have a fit at the thought of Mary inheriting Longbourne over Jane and Lizzie.

Incidentally I named my daughter Elizabeth after reading P&P in my teens and absolutely falling in love with it. Am going to find all the other books mentioned now so thanks for that.

The surname thing has puzzled me for some time.

I eventually came to the conclusion that the entail was originally set up to go through the male line of Mr Somebody's nephews or great-nephews, not necessarily all in male succession from their common ancestor. Mr Somebody presumably had only sisters or only nieces. The first cousins Mr Bennet and Mr Collins Sr would then have been children of two of those sisters (or nieces, happening to be sisters of each other).

@MsAdoraBelleDearheartVonLipwig

I’d like to read about Mr Collins marrying Mary. It would be hilarious. They’d out-pious each other and Mrs B would have a fit at the thought of Mary inheriting Longbourne over Jane and Lizzie.

Incidentally I named my daughter Elizabeth after reading P&P in my teens and absolutely falling in love with it. Am going to find all the other books mentioned now so thanks for that.

You need to read the other Bennett sister

I'm glad I live in 2021 and have choices beyond 'live out my days as a maiden aunt with no real home to call my own' or 'marry a man like Mr.Collins'.

I’ve just realised I live in Georgian England. But not even a Mr Collins has shown an interest.

Jane Austen herself chose not to marry and Cassandra’s fiancé died. Their brothers all contributed to their maintenance