March 26 starters thread 2 - still going strong!

[MoneyJo]

Hello all, didn't want us to get to the end of the first thread without a link to a sequel. Looking forward to seeing where we all get to in the life span of this thread.

I'm still here! Glad your office day went well @taratill, I work a mix of home and office and I find it suits me after decades of commuting into the city every day. Now when I do go in I don't mind the train journey and I really like catching up with everyone. It's very convenient for a bit of shopping too! I could definitely do with a new bra.
How frustrating for you @MoneyJo, hopefully a whoosh is coming your way very soon.
I have tried injecting into my thigh for the first time today, my stomach is a bit of a mess because I get such a reaction every time I jab and I have lots of red marks, one of which is from 3 weeks ago. Any tips are welcome, I always take the pen out of the fridge a few hours before I use it and I don't use the swabs on my skin, only on the pen.
Hasn't it turned cold all of a sudden?!

Thanks @MoneyJo and @ShebaQueen.

It's frustrating @MoneyJo I'm not losing like I used to either. Just got to keep going.

The other thing is that the cold weather makes me feel colder now I have less 'insulation' so I feel as though I need more food and specifically more comfort food to keep going.

@ShebaQueen I'm really cold today, not aided by the fact that we currently have no heating in our front room. We have radiators in boxes ready for plumbers who are coming next Tuesday. Fingers crossed it doesn't drop any more!

Re the red marks, I had them at the start but don't anymore. I might be stating the obvious but have you tried anti-histamines? Do they help?

@MoneyJo I too have been in a massive stall. I increased my eating for three weeks and have jigged up my exercise routine - trying some new classes, exercising early morning a few times a week, tried running outside (found it very hard in my knees, so back to treadmill). Just trying to get out of the rut. This week I am back on my usual eating pattern and the scale is starting to shift - not much so far but defo moving since Monday. I’m not sure whether temporarily increasing intake has helped, but it feels good to DO SOMETHING. Also nice that despite eating more, I didn’t gain but stayed in a half kg window which seems my norm. Currently 91.6kg and would like to get to 85kg by Christmas.

I’ve been listening to the Boots webinars on YouTube and they talk about plateaus a lot - that it’s normal, that other things are changing and that number on the scale isn’t the only progress. It’s nice to hear, but I would prefer that number to head downwards nonetheless!

@taratill Glad back to work went smoothly. I expect your colleagues were being super tactful after your sick leave, but I bet they noticed!

There is bra recycling scheme for breast cancer if you google it - sent my last lot to them.

@SmallTreeDeepRoots may I ask what the logic is behind the increased eating please, I've read about this before but I'm not sure what the basis is for it?

Also thanks for the bra recycling recommendation, I'll take a look at that.

What dose are we all on now? According to the dosing guidelines we should all be on 15mg or reducing to maintain after this long. There is a big push on here to micro dose / stay on the lowest possible dose but sometimes I wonder if that's the right approach 🤔. An old family friend from Australia was visiting recently and she'd moved up monthly as recommended and hit target pretty quickly so I'm really conflicted.

I'm now on 7.5 but dosed after 6 days last week and feel hungry now. So I now don't know what to do???

I think there is maybe a bit of competitiveness around staying on the lowest possible dose going on which I think may be hampering progress for some/ me??

I guess I'm trying to talk myself into just increasing the dose lol!

Anyway can we have a round up of where we all are dose wise (sorry for being nosey)?

Thank you @ShebaQueen @taratill and @SmallTreeDeepRoots

I think I need to start by upping exercise but I need life to calm down a bit first.

@taratill I am on 10mg. Have been for a month. I guess I could go up but I haven't wanted to go through the doses too quickly.

Interesting that you mentioned that some of us will be onto maintenance now. I'm a long way off but I guess it depends on how much we each had to lose when we started. From my first MJ dose I knew I had 7 stone to lose so it would be a long journey. I'm half way.

I am coming to the end of my first 7.5 pen. I’m worried about moving upwards too quickly and “running out” of doses. Plus the lower doses are cheaper. I had some other long term meds years ago which I had to increase the dose of as my body habituated to it. After a few years I had to stop taking it which caused me some problems, but wasn’t able to increase the dose further and the side effects outweighed the benefits (which had pretty much ceased) iyswim. So I am personally cautious! Maybe MJ is different?

The theory behind increasing calories is to do with body set point. That the body gets used to a certain intake and adjusts BMR (by temperature of other processes) to take that intake into account. So being on a very low calorie diet for a while means that your body gets used to that being the normal level and you will have to reduce intake further to lose weight. The Andrew Jenkinson book why we eat (too much) covers it really well. So in a plateau, if you increase intake for a few weeks, your body will acclimatise to new level, then a subsequent reduction will trigger weight loss. Jason Fung writes a lot about humans traditionally having periods of feasting and periods of fasting/famine - in the wild we would not be eating a steady and consistent diet. My previous weight loss “successes” (comparatively!) were with concerted periods of restriction interspersed with burst of relaxation. Lots of evidence over the benefit of a “cheat day” to reset BMR, so I tried a cheat 3 weeks of moderate increase to reset. I have spent a long time reading up on weight loss (with little practical, long term success!). MJ is giving me the space to put some of it into practice. And it really HAS to work this time.

Thanks @taratill anti-histamines definitely help with itching. As I have mentioned before, I've suffered with lots of side effects from day 1 and I don't seem to have built up much tolerance, I still feel really terrible for the first couple of days after I jab. For that reason alone I am still on 5 at the moment, I agree that there does seem to be some competitiveness around staying on a lower dose, I would really like to increase as although I am still losing, it's very slow. I also have a friend who increased her dose every month and got to target quickly, but as you say @MoneyJo I think it depends how much you have to lose. I'm at 85kg now, down from 106kg when I started in March. Isn't it amazing - this is the most I have ever lost and yet I am still impatient for more! I think the dramatic early weight loss and watching the scales go down every week was addictive.
That analysis is so interesting, thanks for sharing @SmallTreeDeepRoots.
Have a good Friday everyone.

Hi! I'm still here too and also stalled.
I am heading out on holiday next week so have been extra good as I have a dress I really want to wear which is still a little tight. I have had about 600 - 800 calories a day and lost.... NADA. Had some home made leek and potato soup with 1 slice of bread and put on 1lb. So I guess I am not taking the dress with me :-(
Still on 5 but thinking of going up to 7.5 when back from holiday as a final push to get this last 12 or so lbs off.

I am seriously worried about keeping it off long term, I absolutely cannot go back up in size, I am so unhappy bigger, both physically and mentally. I've also had a few comments from people saying either they don't approve of the jabs or telling me it's cheating or that it's impossible to keep the weight off afterwards. Cheekly gits.

Oh ignore them @nickdrakeslovechild they are just jealous you look good and can afford it! Glad to see you are still here on the thread.

Where are you off to on holiday?

The stalling is so frustrating, I'm gaining and losing the same llb at the moment even with reducing the number of days in between jabs. I've been less 'strict' with the dieting but I do feel that now I need to reset. I think a bit of diet fatigue has come in now too, and, as you say @ShebaQueen watching the scales fall is addictive!

I'm not sure 600-800 calories per day is sustainable @nickdrakeslovechild , I'd not manage that low without having a massive dip in energy. It is a mystery how it works that you didn't lose weight with that, just goes to show that all the people who say all you need to do to lose weight is consume less calories have no idea what they are talking about!

You've done so well to get halfway @MoneyJo, I'm just over half way, just over 3 stone lost , just under 3 to go!

I've had an interesting thing happen this week. I've gone from feeling slim (compared to just before I started) to feeling fat again! had a look at the photo I took to send to my original supplier and I was so bloated and my face was so round. But when I was out in town on Wednesday after work I still saw a fat person in the mirrors. I used to avoid looking at mirrors altogether because I didn't like what I saw!

Someone posted a chart, not sure if it was on the first of our threads which suggested I should be at target by November / December. There is zero chance of that now obviously!! I don't know how it thought a 6 stone loss was achievable in less than a year but at one point it was dropping off so it seemed like it could be. So it's just the diet fatigue and realising that this is now for life (either losing or maintaining!) that is getting me down.

But I do feel MUCH better and healthier so I need to stop moaning, lol!

@ShebaQueen I'm so sorry you are still getting awful symptoms.

@SmallTreeDeepRoots that's all really interesting re- set point, I've got a day off today so may do some more research. Out of interest how much did you increase intake by? I wonder if the Andrew Jenkinson book is available on audible to download as I've got some credits available...

Sorry I missed this, I really hope life gets a bit easier for you soon. It's so difficult to focus when other things are going on

@taratill I listened to the Andrew Jenkinson book. I think on Apple books, but if it’s on one platform, it’s usually everywhere! I listen to stuff all day long (boring job) and bounce between platforms for deals.

I don’t count calories as it seems too hard - I cook everything from scratch as we have allergies and I cut out UPF as well. Bread, ice cream, ketchup - the lot. It seems easier to count if you eat more prepared foods. I may try when/if I am closer to target and really stuck. So for now I have no breakfast, late small lunch like boiled egg and salad, or soup, followed by fruit (usually kiwi for bowels), early dinner with family but smaller portion and low on the carb. No eating between meals, pudding with Sunday lunch but otherwise not. I try to fit in a 36hour fast twice a month, but it’s got to be subtle around the kids as I am keen not to make a thing around food. So the fast can only happen if they or I am away or busy somewhere else at a normal mealtime. When I increased intake I went to three meals a day, more normal portions, and a couple of times a week I had a small glass of wine socially. I was pleased I didn’t gain weight.

Stay strong @nickdrakeslovechild! Everyone loves to have an opinion. You do you - as you live with any consequences, not the meddling others.

@nickdrakeslovechild absolutely ignore those comments about MJ. Load of rubbish. It's not cheating and I reckon the people who don't approve just don't know what they're talking about. And as for keeping weight off after - I'm sure it's hard and I'm intending to stay on low dose of MJ for a long time but I am optimistic!

I am a bit concerned about how little you're eating though nick - that doesn't seem healthy. I hope you're ok. Do you get much exercise?

@SmallTreeDeepRoots that's great I've downloaded it now. I listen to books while I'm cleaning or driving.

I'm in awe of the fact that you can listen when you're working, very impressive!

Also I'm with you on the calorie counting when you're always cooking from scratch. Way too much of a faff. Most of what we eat is like you, from scratch.

On the subject of food I tried cauliflower rice last night for the first time and it was actually good as a substitute with a chilli. Although I'm possibly a bit windier than normal (sorry tmi!)

@taratill I’ve been on 5mg for 4 weeks and I’ve lost 4lb, and I’m within 1st of my goal, so I am sort of thinking about moving up to 7.5, with the hope getting rid of that last stone within the next 3 months. Then, it’ll be working out how to maintain my weight.

I seem to be a slow loser, but it’s working for me and it is SO good to have a body that doesn’t ache as much, and to be able to run upstairs, and to be able to do a shell stretch at Pilates without my belly getting in the way.

Thanks all, to be honest the last person that said it got the full hairdryer treatment!! I have been very open about using mounjaro and people can be so rude.

I normally only have around 1000 -1200 calories, if I eat any more I just won't lose weight, in fact I will put it on 😞. I get my thyroid checked pretty regularly as years ago I had an overactive thyroid, so it's not an underactive thyroid which is what my friends have suggested it could be.
I am very active and I always do at least 10,000 steps and spend so much time outdoors either walking the dogs or digging at the allotment. No idea why I need so few calories. It's bloody frustrating.

@Plumetti that's great that you are so close to goal, how much have you lost on average per week? Do you plan to stay on a low dose to maintain or to withdraw completely.

@nickdrakeslovechild really hear you with the frustration, I'm feeling it too.

@SmallTreeDeepRoots thanks for the recommendation, I've just listened to the first chapter while walking the dogs. So interesting.

@taratill it’s been around a lb a week over all. Some weeks a little more, and some a little less.

Once I get to target weight I think I will gradually taper off, and see if I can eventually wean off, but I am prepared to maintain indefinitely if I need to!

A lb a week is great @Plumetti. I definitely think that i'll stay on a low dose forever as it has cured my IBS and I really don't want that to make a come back!

i think I’d do the same as you@taratill, to be free of IBS symptoms alone makes an enormous difference to your quality of life.

It really really does, and to think that I was almost put off MJ altogether by concerns over increased gastric issues!

I can totally take the very occasional constipation any day over how I used to be before!

And it was instant so I'm not sure if it's down to reduced inflammation or something else.

So looking at Shotsy I can see why i'm feeling fed up. My average rate of weight loss has more than halved in the last month to less than 1/2 lb per week. Since starting my average has been 1 1/2 lbs a week.

Listening to the book that smalltrees (I've read the first 4 chapters) I am now wondering about this set point theory and the fact that my metabolism must have slowed to prevent me losing more weight. It does make sense because I'm around the weight I was after the last time I lost a fair amount of weight and before weight started to massively gain. Need to get on with the book for tips on how to get past the set point (or increase dose lol).

I feel rubbish today with a virus so no exercise, I just feel cold and tired. Hope everyone has a good Saturday!

Please do feedback the rest of your findings when you finish the book.

@taratill @MoneyJo It really was a fascinating book. I read it a few years ago, but it made an impression. Now inspired to listen again so have readded it to my queue. Perhaps we should start a MarchMJ book club!