Death linked to Mounjaro

[suki1964]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6jg6nw2zeo

I am in no way knocking anyone who is using these drugs, seriously if I could use them I would. However Im throwing this up here because these drugs have only been tested and deemed safe on a small study - those who's BMI is above 30.

@Froggerz please explain to me why over the course of the last several decades I have not managed to eat less and move more consistently in order to lose weight and become a healthy weight? What is this viable alternative that you are on about? Because it hasn't been viable for me. How do I get the necessary willpower and persistence that you have and others like you? What is it that I need to do?

I think you can get medication can't you if you are a problem drinker that makes you not want the booze so suppose that's similar. That must have side effects. And methadone for drug use and that stuff you paint on your nails to stop you biting them - one could argue they are all "cheating" as you could do those things without the drugs/painty stuff.

In the last few years the RCP has classified it as a disease (I wonder why), but I think we all know it isn’t the same as cancer or other actual diseases. Absolutely obtuse to say otherwise.

Sure, there are lifestyle choices that increase risk of things like cancer and dementia etc, but obesity is in 99% cases ENTIRELY self-inflicted. No one’s just ‘unlucky’.

Habits and self-control.

Weight stuff does seem to bring out the emotions though.

Comments like this are condescending and patronising to women. It seems reacting or responding in any way to people making unsolicited and often uneducated comments about your WL choices bring out that particular brand of misogynistic "You're being defensive/emotional/aggressive/etc".

Apparently we should just sit and roll our eyes and only respond with a 'Thank you for letting me know this information I've never come across about this WLI before. You just saved me from myself'.

Em, no thanks!

I'm getting the same vibes as there are from the "too posh to push" crowd here.

Like, "Fat people, you'd better suffer for this. Don't think you can just get what you want without the requisite amount of suffering and atonement."

GPS are a business not just private healthcare. It’s broken down on the governments website what they get for vaccines and other prescribed medication, they also have targets to meet with the NHS plus pharmaceuticals too.

@Wantitalltogoaway that isn't an explanation, how does one develop the appropriate habits and self control? Which is just another word for willpower.

When I've made changes to adapt the correct habits, why am I not able to keep to them for long enough to lose sufficient weight? What is it that you can do that I can't?

No need, you can just buy it in Tesco!

Let's not pretend the OP and naysayers on this thread have any actual concerns for those who choose to use MJ

I was using it as an example of cost risk benefit of taking a drug. But yes. You could chose to look at it like that - it’s a way of controlling your bodies response to certain situations.

Well don't inject yourself. You're not obliged.

Don't try to police other people who have capacity to make their own decisions and consent to treatment

Why do you clean your teeth every day? Is it willpower? Nope. It’s just because you’ve done it twice a day every day since you were little. You feel weird if you don’t. Of course you know that if you don’t your teeth will decay etc, but mainly it’s habit.

You just build it into your life. Don’t buy crappy food. Walk to work. Do a tiny bit of exercise as you wait for the kettle to boil. Stack it up so it’s achievable. After a while you don’t think about it.

We don’t all know in fact the growing evidence suggests it is very much a disease like any other and that some people have a genetic disposition to obesity.

See Dr Andrew Jenkinsons work.

Such people are fraudulently getting medication then. That's on them.

Why would you assume she should be losing weight on 1600 calories?

Loads of middle aged shorter women won't lose weight on 1600 calories. Many women won't lose weight at all unless they go below 1200 calories which is a very tough target.

“Obesity costs the NHS around £6.5 billion a year and is the second biggest preventable cause of cancer. Over one in four (26%) adults and 23.4% of children aged 10-11 years in England are living with obesity, placing huge pressure on the health and care system.

All drugs have some side effects.

the drugs used to treat joint pain / diabetes / heart issues caused by obesity also have side effects.

In an ideal world more people would take ownership of their lifestyle before they were morbidly obese - but there is little doubt on a macro level that a thinner population is a healthier one (and a much cheaper one to look after)

I’m pro weight loss drugs - pro people being less diabetic + more mobile + cheaper for the NHS to care for. Pro people being happier because they can move more easily (endorphins are a hell pf a drug!). Pro some of the 6.5 billion being spent on early childhood intervention / environmental protection etc etc

Why do you clean your teeth every day? Is it willpower? Nope. It’s just because you’ve done it twice a day every day since you were little. You feel weird if you don’t. Of course you know that if you don’t your teeth will decay etc, but mainly it’s habit.

Actually, self-care tasks like cleaning teeth are one of the most common things to go when someone has a variety of issues, such as depression, ADHD, ASD. It's very common for people to stop cleaning their teeth and other personal hygiene things when they have certain health issues going on, regardless of whether it's habit or not. It's much more nuanced unfortunately.

Of course some people are more predisposed than others, but we DO all know that you will not become obese if you don’t build and continue a habit of overeating.

@Wantitalltogoaway I'm asking why it is that people like me fail to "stack them up" and fail to build these habits into our lives successfully? Every single time over the course of decades. Why does it break down for me, but not for you as a person at a healthy weight? Is it just a personal failing? Lack of sufficient mental strength?

I think you’ve missed the point.

Really?

I consider it quite unlucky to have adhd and PCOS. Causing severe exhaustion, but also can’t sleep.

Excerise helped my adhd for years. Being a healthy body weight most of my life helped keep my PCOS under control. It was quite unlucky that my ex husband became mentally ill and I became a single parent to 2 traumatised kids. Which left me so drained and so little time the exercise waned, weight went on and my PCOS flared and my ADHD got worse. Leaving me utterly exhausted, to the point I had enough energy to work (needed to to keep a roof over our heads) and look after the kids then nothing left for me. Not tired. Completely exhausted to the point I felt like my body was shutting down on a daily basis. Between the horrific false up of my adhd and PCOS symptoms I couldn’t get back on track no matter how hard I tried.

I consider it quite unlucky that I grew up with a mother who had an eating disorder was openly judgemental of obese people. Which caused my own issues around food and weight. My GP thinks it’s what likely cause my hyper fixation around food. So really hated myself at the weight I was. Didn’t matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t do it.

I consider it lucky that MJ has helped my PCOS symptoms and my ADHD and hyper fixation around food to the point I can eat healthy AND have the energy to excerise. Which is helping both the PCOS and adhd. I consider it really lucky that with the extra mental space I have been able to address my own unhealthy food issues, how I feel about myself and become happier.

But you crack on chatting about something you know nothing about.

Andrew Jenkinson's work on leptin and ghrelin is really interesting about the role of hormones in metabology.

We talk about a willpower a lot when it comes to weight loss but he makes the point that a) hunger is one of the most primal urges we have. In extreme low cal experiments, participants literally had to be removed for threatening violence to themselves and others and that b) willpower is all very well, but not everyone is starting from the same baseline, and obese people often have shown remarkable willpower from a lifetime of dieting and restricting food in a way that some others haven't had to face. It's clear that 'just eat less and move more' is easy for some people and far more difficult for others, and it's not to do with willpower and may well be due to the way people's bodies work.

His books are very interesting. He himself is a bariatric surgery consultant so has seen a lot of obese people coming through his door and has actually listened to what they are saying.

Having PIV sex with men is a lifestyle choice (albeit a very very normal one). Women take hormonal birth control with its associated risks in order to facilitate that choice.

Sounds like a mad comparison, but when you think about it the combination of biological and social pressures/urges that get us to over eat are not that dissimilar to the combination of biological and social pressures/urges that make us have PIV sex.

@Wantitalltogoaway I don't think I did! Your point is that if you just make healthy eating a habit, it's easy to stick to it, and you used the brushing teeth example. But it's clear that habits can be easily disrupted by other external factors, whether that's brushing teeth or healthy eating. Plenty of people have well ingrained habits that end up disrupted because of external and internal factors.

I didn't say that at all, I said on the assumption that the 1600 was a calorie deficit not that it was a calorie deficit. My BMR is about 1200 so yes 1600 does not sound like a diet to me. But if you re read the post i was commenting on the fact that the inference seemed to be that the person was doing what would usually mean one would lose weight and she wasn't, hence my question.

Signed, a middle aged short woman.