Death linked to Mounjaro

[suki1964]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6jg6nw2zeo

I am in no way knocking anyone who is using these drugs, seriously if I could use them I would. However Im throwing this up here because these drugs have only been tested and deemed safe on a small study - those who's BMI is above 30.

People on the anti inflammatory drug I was on have died of strokes, heart attack, perforated ulcers, heart failure, kidney failure and necrotic skin conditions, with the drug as contributary factor.

Fortunately I am no longer on it because MJ as well as helping weight loss has magiced away my joint inflammation.

All drugs have potentially fatal side effects. Statistically, folk will have died from most of them.

Are you going to update us on mortality for every drug on in existence or just the slimming ones?

Any drug with effects has side effects.

It's very important to make sure people understand them and accept them.

And there's no need for defensiveness. It's likely that the use of these drugs will become widespread because obesity is widespread. Informed consent is important.

No matter what the drug there will always be a small number of people who will experience nagative affects from it. That doesn't meant the drug isn't safe. It just means it isn't suitable for some people. That is why individuals need to way up the risks for themselves. Someone morbidly obese who is facing serious complecations and ill health might think it is worth the risk. And there are people who only need to lose 7 lbs to reach a normal BMI thinking it is worth the risk too. It's a personal decision. I don't think anyone taking it believes it is risk-free. They're just willing to take the risk and hope they're in the majority who have no issues.

It's a personal decision.

Sort of.

I'm of the opinion that healthcare shouldn't be a business. No advertising, no insta-people, no discount codes. I think risk should be discussed with an actual HCP whose job is your health, and public health, not profit.

It makes me very uncomfortable to see the discounts and online pharmacies. I've had very important discussions with HCPs about whether or not to take various medications, for various medical issues, all of which are a balance with me and the HCP talking about risk, side effects, benefits, LT and SH gain and loss.

What's happening right now is not that.

Private healthcare is very much a business. That is what this is. The risks are publicised. There is a set criteria for who can be prescribed it taking those risks into account. You have to agree that you accept those risks. Having a HCP sitting in front of you isn't going to change people's minds.

But a big issue is there are a huge number of people lying to get the medication. It is those people who the benefits don't outweigh the risks for, from a healthcare perspective. It is these people who are inflating the number of negative outcomes. And it is these people who are causing such a backlash against these medications which are life-saving and life-changing for a lot of people.

WHY is there such a big obesity problem?
That surely should be the question being asked.

People used to be so much slimmer even 20 years ago.

I don't think this is any mystery, given the changes in lifestyle habits, work, food etc.

That’s very sad, However do you know how many people have died with obesity as the root cause? Millions. Do you know how many people die every year due to adverse reactions to other drugs?

however this is a cautionary tale for those messing with their doses, follow the guidelines.

Yes, this is exactly the worry. Of course very many drugs have potential serious side-effects. But generally, they will be prescribed under genuine medical supervision. That very often isn't what is happening now.

The General Pharmaceutical Council is concerned enough about it to be in the process right now of developing further safeguards to reduce the number of inappropriate online prescriptions.

And in response to what another poster has said, yes, of course private healthcare is perfectly legitimate -- when it follows the same protective protocols as public healthcare. But when it is reduced essentially to a sale, with unverified information from customers being accepted without adequate scrutiny it is far from legitimate, and significantly raises the risk of bad outcomes.

I feel sorry for MNHQ, really. With all the discount codes and the massive volume of (presumably influencer affected) chat about weight loss injections on the site, it feels like MN has become one big advert dragging all sorts of overweight women and eating-disordered women towards something that is only safe and appropriate for some of them.
https://www.pharmacyregulation.org/about-us/news-and-updates/pharmacy-regulator-proposes-extra-safeguards-prevent-unsafe-online-supplies-medicines

I agree with this.

The risks are clearly outlined in the patient leaflet. It is a personal risk assessment based on your other health issues alongside those of being obese. I do wonder how many people read them. I also question how many understand how these drugs work and make the necessary dietary and lifestyle changes, rather than relying on just not eating much to lose weight.

A lot of the controversy and risk around private procurement could be removed if the NHS Weight Loss Service was fit for purpose, which it currently isn't. Allowing GPs to prescribe and monitor through nurse led clinics would make a lot of sense and reduce risk.

I just think it's the media's current focus on these drugs, tbh.

2000 deaths a year - in the UK - are contributed to by ibuprofen. But we still all consider that drug safe and allow people to buy and use it.

Very sad for this lady and her loved ones but probably not particularly useful as an indication of safety (or not) of the drug.

Fast food and snacks!!

And deliveroo facilitating it all 24/7

She took 2 low doses of Mounjaro for 2 weeks (assuming the starting dose of 2.5mg every week like every other person) before she died. It's obvious some people don't react well to some meds, hence why meds are started on low dose, monitored for efficacy and possible reaction, and increased as necessary.

Her death has nothing to do with the safety or not of Mounjaro (or private pharmacies or online pharmacies or HCP monitoring unless she didn't buy them from a legal and registered one, which hasn't been mentioned) anymore than someone who took another prescription meds which didn't agree with them died and suddenly there are safety warnings about that drug. Even if she was prescribed this by a physical GP, she'd likely have reacted the same way to the drug in 2 weeks of starting and she'd likely have the same outcome as the HCP or GP wouldn't have been literally monitoring her reaction at home everyday. The issue was her body's reaction to the drug and not the drug being fake or from a private pharmacy.

This isn't about "defensiveness" (🙄) like a pp claimed but questioning and commenting on the usefulness of this news and 'warning' as opposed to other drugs that's done the same. Granted, it's still relatively new in its use in the UK so any news about it will be plastered unlike all the other meds. At some point, the opposite will be the case like other meds.

People who use Mounjaro already know (and others who haven't should read) information about Mounjaro before they take it, like every other medicine. If it didn't work for you, it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it didn't work for you, like every other meds.

Sad for the woman and her family.

I almost bled out after two aspirin. All medication is a risk.

I'm on Montjaro under advice from my consultant and GP as I need surgery. It's not available on script in my area so I've no choice but to pay. For me it's made a major difference my blood pressure is normal and I'm now at a safe weight for surgery and have my pre op early next year. It's been life saving for me as is aspirin for thousands of others.

I agree healthcare being a business is a slippery slope but there are other considerations (these are not aimed at you, just me reflecting in the context of my own experience)

GPs are overworked and the NHS do not have the funds to support these, or even other, medications fully - I have been thinking about this recently - I am on various medications and questioning them now - my high blood pressure medication was prescribed to me without ever seeing a Dr! I went to the optician who recommended I get my BP checked, got appointment with surgery nurse who took BP once, went to speak to Dr who said to nurse they would prescribe it and that was it!

"the HCP talking about risk, side effects, benefits" - I am also on other medications and I have never had any HCP talk about the risks/side effects of any of them.

If the NHS cannot resource prescribing it, which is not going to change anytime soon, should people (who have not been able to resolve their obesity issues through other means) just take the risk and stay obese? Or do it through private Drs which may be safer will make it out of the financial reach of many.

Going only by my experience with ds getting Roaccutane via a private dermatologist they don't do many checks either - he had not bloods/check up before starting - was in for 10 mins, just looked at given a prescription for 10 weeks and went away - he wasn't told what to look out for/potential side effects etc.

It is a conundrum, people are more information about health than ever before, I think I still support these been prescribed via pharmacies as long as there is a robust consultation process to ensure the person is eligible and support if needed.

And the fact that many people spend a huge amount of time sitting down. (Desk based workers in particular spend 9 hours a day + sitting)

I mean a generation ago there were no computers in common use. Office work meant typewriting, getitng up and down to filing cabinets etc. Nowadays every file is stored online etc, theres little reason to get up.

Also at this time there was far less fast food available than now.

One or two generations ago, people cooked from scratch more as there wasnt as much freezer food available in shops and one wage was enough to sustain a family so one parent could stay at home and have time for this. Nowadays after workign 9 hours at a desk, we are exhausted and rely on convenience foods cooked in convenient ways or collect take out . Less cars on the road and peopel walked to work etc more

The lifestyle we lead in t his generation is very unhealthy. We go out for a walk at lunch and drive to a job that is a ten minute walk away.

Then there is the side hustle gig that is largely an online economy.

The death doesn't worry me. I was awaiting a tonsillectomy around 20 years ago, and my surgery was one of those cancelled nationally after multiple deaths on the table from uncontrolled bleeding. They rejigged the technique and restarted the ops.

Unfortunately life has risks, and for me the risk of staying grossly obese is higher than the risk from Mounjaro.

Pancreatitis is listed as a known rare complication. And pancreatitis can be bloody nasty, but that's the part the public might not know.

This definitely worries me.

I think with medications, it's all about weighing up the risks.

Is there a safe alternative to weightloss injection?
Yes. Yes there is. In the form of exercise and diet. Yes it's hard. Yes it takes longer.

What happens when you stop injectables? Assume it's the same that happens when you quit healthy eating. So you need to revisit them to keep this up.

Are they being administered safely?
In my opinion no. People sharing discount codes, celebs that don't need it showing off their weightloss. Online pharmacies where you can manipulate them to get the drug. People admit that they do that too.

For that reason, for me, the risk just isn't worth it.

We really need to look at why we are getting fatter. I think it's several factors that could be fixed in some form.

Desk bound, stressful jobs
Sat around on our phones
Eating crappy processed food
Wine used to control our stress
No time for exercise
Not when there's tv to watch and sit on our phones
Can't let the kids out on their bikes all day like we used to. They are safer inside playing switch.
Get a takeaway? Hell we can just order one in now!
Lack of clear direction over the years... count carbs? Don't count calories? Eat fat? Don't eat avocados they are fatty? Low fat diet? Cardio is best, no lifting weights is best? Count syns? Red wine is good for you? Etc

I think it was pointed out there was no evidence to suggest MJ caused the people to die, just that they died while taking MJ. Investigations have revealed that most people who die from MJ complications were taking it via online pharmacies and possibly misusing it too - so there might be a case for making it available only via GPs (private or NHS).

Everyone I know who has died while losing weight has died while exercising. There is also significant evidence now that calorie restriction causes sudden death. Calorie restriction and exercise very much ARE dangerous

Well that’s terrifying. Thank you for sharing OP. I think what’s especially frightening is this woman had such an extreme reaction to such a low dose and only two doses at that. Seems there was no opportunity for her to recognise she wasn’t suited to the drug before fatal consequences.

Honestly, I find this sort of comment bizarre.

It’s really obvious when people don’t take it. Because they say things like ‘there’s an alternative’

Do you believe obese people turned to this medication as a first choice? Or do you think it’s more likely they have tried all sorts of things, including just eating less and moving more, multiple times. Proving it’s not quite that simple.

You do realise that most people taking MJ are now able to eat less and move more, because they are taking MJ? It’s not a miracle drug. It doesn’t melt the fat with no effort. It helps people be able to move more and eat less. Consistently to improve their health.

and it doesn’t speed up the process. It helps people remain consistent. Which is what speeds up the process.

Why are you concerned about what happens when someone else stops taking it? It’s like any other medication. Some people will stop and be able to manage. Some people may need to stay on it.

I do agree it’s being administered poorly in some cases. But that’s usually down to the person ordering it. Fraudulently applying for it. Just like lots of people misuse ibuprofen or laxatives. I think people need to take responsibility for themselves and not lie to obtain prescription medication, in those cases.

I do also agree that referrals codes etc are unethical and we should look more into causes of obesity.

But it’s obvious you don’t really understand why people take MJ or how it’s meant to be used.

If the risk isn’t worth it to you. Just take you own advice and eat less and move more to loose your excess weight. If that works for you that’s great. That doesn’t mean it works for other people and the actual risk is far outweighed by the benefits.

I think you've lost track of time, a generation ago was 2000 - no one was using typewriters, it was all about McDonalds or anything Birdseye for dinner, and everyone still had cars.

I grew up in the 90s and weekends we would eat potato smilies while watching the Generation Game or Gladiators. We'd walk, but only to the local video store where we'd buy chocolate and popcorn as well as renting a film. Friday night we'd go to the chippy. Sunday was shopping and McDonalds. We bought overpriced extra extra large cinema snacks. Secondary school had an ice cream van selling sweets parked up every single day on the field. Fireman Sam was all about the dangers of chip pan fires. You weren't allowed to have a bottle of water at school, you waited for breaks to use the water fountain or vending machines (also heavily stocked with chocolate and crisps). There were no restrictions on what food you could have for lunch. Mum would go to the tobacconist's for her cigarettes and we'd get the any 4 chocolate bars for £1 deal.