Trafford area 11+ and tutoring

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Hello mums,

I was recently told by someone that every parent in trafford tutors their children with the aim of getting them into the local grammar schools. Whilst not 'every' parent will do it, Is this the case? Do even the children who get sent to the local private schools get tutored too generally? I'm thinking of sending my children to the local private schools with the understanding that they might prepare them better for the 11+ exams (as opposed to tutoring them intensively in the run up).....
The person who told me about the tutoring basically said, there is no advantage to paying for private schools to get into the grammar schools as everyone tutors anyway and the local schools are excellent..... Any thought highly appreciated. Thank you

It's such a shame, all this tutoring is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If nobody tutored their DCs for the exams it would be a level playing field, but the children would have less stress, more time, and the parents would have more money.
With everybody thinking they need tutors the only winners are the tutors! They're raking it in to level up the playing field for those who can pay.
It's got ridiculous with parents signing up 4 year-olds for tutor waiting lists but once parents have committed to the roundabout of fear and tutoring, the only way off is for everyone to act together and back off from pressuring their DCs. Nobody wants to be the first to do that...

Well said InMySpareTime It is an education circus out there and the tickets are very expensive. The performing animals have been replaced by kids.

mandy214 And the grammar schools don't favour out of catchment children at all. ...There are some places that are reserved for out of catchment children ... but those children have to achieve a higher pass mark than children within catchment. The pass mark needed for outer catchment is irrelevant. If these places are being ring fenced for outer catchment applicants then they are favouring those children who get the outer catchment places over local children.

By offering outer catchment places in this way they are actually making it harder for inner catchment children to get a place at the school as there are less places to apply for (pushing up the inner catchment pass mark). It means the school is not just taking the best x% from the local area but is actually taking some of the best x% from other areas too. No matter how you look at it this is a way to manipulate the intake to obtain a higher academic intake than they would if they were only admitting local children.

We are 'tutoring' this year, it's £20 an hour and we 'booked on' in June last year.

Stretford offer the top 20 children in the exam 'unconditional' places - ie they could live anywhere and get a place...but I expect most of them are off to AGBS or Manchester Grammar ;) - but I don't think they operate a catchment like some of the other schools, they do children in care, SEN, siblings and distance in that order same as the Manchester schools.

Claire - I apologise I wasn't sure if you meant the 11+ or individual entrance exams - I was trying to clarify but hope I didn't offend you.

It can be obsessive in this borough but actually lots of children also go to the local state schools.

I know that my child will be better suited to a non grammar school and I often say to the parents to pick the school that suits the child - not the other way around.

Don't get me wrong there are some extremely clever children who perform well here - my child has friends whom will thrive in grammar and they are right for pursuing it. This isn't an anti grammar school, but I'm trying to provide a perspective for those moving into the area thinking that their children will walk into the grammars. It's not always that simple.

Ironically one of my relatives went to the grammars here about 15 years ago. They sat the 11+ and got in - no tutoring required. That is how the system should be.

Plus it is down to the individual child - if they choose to work and learn they will do well in any school. If, like my child, there are other factors at play, then picking the school that will create the best environment for them to learn is important.

(A sneaky hello to IMST - not 'seen' you around in a while)

No matter how you look at it this is a way to manipulate the intake to obtain a higher academic intake than they would if they were only admitting local children

So, no wonder the results are good. It doesn't necessarily mean the school is better than the local comprehensives.

Inmysparetime hit the nail on the head and yes Fletcher you do wonder what grade the good Manchester schools would get if they had just the top few percent of children to work with, classes totally full of children who like academic work and supported by parents who can pay for extra help if little johnny is struggling.
I am not having a pop at anyone but it does make you think - it's like comparing apples and oranges

Absolutely. There will be no riff raff, probably few or no first generation immigrants, no significant special educational needs, and few single parent families etc etc. I'm sure the grammars are chav free zones I'd rather not have to send my kids to school with the great unwashed but we are not in the correct category to compete for a grammar school place.

If these places are being ring fenced for outer catchment applicants then they are favouring those children who get the outer catchment places over local children.

Looking at AGSB criteria...Those places are not ring fenced for children who live out of catchment. Those places are ring fenced the highest scoring children regardless of where they live. The score required for children within the defined catchment area doesn't change. If enough children from within the catchment reach the required score then no places will be available for out of catchment children.
AGGS is slightly different. Each girl needs to reach the qualifying aggregate score and needs to achieve a minimum of 70 on each paper. Of those girls that qualify based on score places are allocated depending on distance from the school.
I think (not entirely sure) that UGS reserve 20 places for the 20 most highly scoring children. If the 20 most highest scores come from children who lve in the catchment then no places are available to children who live a considerable data it from the school.
So neither of those schools are actually ring fencing any places for out of catchment children.

You took the words out of my mouth and the non grammar route is more and more attractive unless DC really really want it. Being educated with the great unwashed is under rated. I was and it taught me a huge amount of life lessons and gave me life long friends

Ladybird and fletchermoss - I take it you are not including the lovely Stretford Grammar in your rather sweeping statements about intake....actually my DS has very significant SEN (autism and communication diffs) and they have been exceptionally helpful, and as I said before it is very culturally mixed. I can't speak for the other schools as I have never visited but I do think we benefit from Stretford being rather ignored by the Altrincham Massive :)

In my case rather tongue in cheek at definately relating to the Alty end of the borough STGS sounds more and more attractive if we consider grammar

It was only in 2009 that Stretford Grammar was in special measures. The grammar school label (in all cases not just Stretford) isn't always as good as it seems.

Yes, as a result of head on long term sick leave. New head (about 4 years now) is excellent (and kids academic progress was always ok).

This is what Ofsted say about Stretford Grammar

Stretford Grammar is a selective school with foundation status. It is a smaller than average
sized secondary school. The proportion of disabled students and those with special
educational needs is well below average. A below average number of students are known to
be eligible for free school meals. The proportion of students from minority ethnic
backgrounds, around 70%, is much larger than average. Although about 40% of students
speak English as an additional language, very few are at an early stage of learning English.

I have just been reading an article in the South Manchester paper about how Trafford primaries out perform the rest in greater Manchester. This has really round me up now as there is no mention of how much tutoring goes on !

Took DD to the AGGS entrance exams yesterday. It was hellish, with girls in tears before they even went in, and parents literally pushing their DCs at the teachers.
I felt sorry for the girls, it was definitely performance day at the circus.
I never tutored DD, she did some online practice and two papers I got off Amazon. She thinks she's done well, results in a couple of weeks.
We took her out for a surprise trip to the cinema as a reward for trying hard, I'm not into bribery and there's no point promising a reward for passing, that's not really in her control.

My post should have said wound me up. It's an unfair comparison. As for AGSG that just sounds awful and sad. I really feel for those that don't pass and feel like failures

DD said her classmates were worried about "failing" and we're talking about how if they don't get into the "right" school they won't get into university and they'll never get a decent job...
What has it come to when 10 year olds are concerned about their future career prospects?
When I was 10 I wanted to be whatever I'd just read about, a medieval princess, an astronaut, ruler of the universe, an engineer, the world was my oyster.
It made me sad to hear children preparing for "failure" at such a young age.

It's very sad. Obviously this is the message that very well meaning parents are giving out, as they see AGSG /Grammar as the golden ticket. Even sader is that this is no doubt an ongoing conversation in the play ground. The queen bee girls who get in will no doubt make the others feel stupid / inferior and worried - even if they don't mean to

doodledot I read that too and it's so true year six sats results in trafford are amazing because so many kids are tutored through y5 (my own included)

It's really not a true representation of the primary schools as I've found out, my daughters school is seen as excellent with fabulous results but rather than being down to outstanding teaching the majority of it is down to the parents. It's very unfair to parents who are not familiar to the area or what goes on.

Sorry forgotten who said it but not all state schools in hale/altrincham offer exam prep mine certainly doesn't it's totally down to the parents.

Hello - i am very sorry for the shameless hijack, but as there are so many posters here who live in the altrincham area i thought you might be able to help. I have posted in the local pages but no replies yet!

Secondary is a long way off for us but we are thinking about pre school / nursery and primaries.

We live very close to altrincham CofE but don't go to church - is it even worth an application? We are in catchment for oldfield brow but have reservations about the social mix, even though it is a good school (i know how that sounds, sorry). Other schools closest to us but are out of catchment would be navigation road, bollin or bowdon CofE. Any experiences please?

Thank you in advance.

I have no direct knowledge but friends that are over that way. Bollin and Bowden I suspect are so over subscribed that only catchment DC get in. Admissions were very helpful when a friend of mine asked for details. Nav Rd is a new build is it not but a less posh catchment ?

This thread might be of help www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/a877114-Moving-to-Manchester-can-you-help-me-with-advice-on

winespider have pmed you :)