Trafford area 11+ and tutoring

[smileyface128]

Hello mums,

I was recently told by someone that every parent in trafford tutors their children with the aim of getting them into the local grammar schools. Whilst not 'every' parent will do it, Is this the case? Do even the children who get sent to the local private schools get tutored too generally? I'm thinking of sending my children to the local private schools with the understanding that they might prepare them better for the 11+ exams (as opposed to tutoring them intensively in the run up).....
The person who told me about the tutoring basically said, there is no advantage to paying for private schools to get into the grammar schools as everyone tutors anyway and the local schools are excellent..... Any thought highly appreciated. Thank you

Just attending a Grammar (or any school for that matter) shouldn't guarantee a place in 6th form.

The High School that dd will be going to doesn't have a 6th Form, so, assuming she wants to do A-levels, she will be competing for a place at other schools and colleges who provide them, Grammar included.

I think it's good that the balls are all in the air again at that stage. 16 yr olds should be ready for the pressure and hard work required for whichever career path they are pursuing.

I do wonder how those who are burnt out from 11+ entrance and the following years of maintaining a level beyond their true ability will fair.

Missunreasonable I've heard of some MGS pupils being invited to find a different school before GCSEs if it's thought they won't make the grades - not sure how true this is.
Many schools also just don't enter pupils into exams so they are not included in the school figures.
I think we all know that school league tables don't always tell the full story.

Where I am in Trafford the Altrincham Grammars are favoured over MGS and Man High, in particular with MGS since the junior school opened as it's felt that the academic calibre of some of the pupils isn't as good as the school were anxious to fill the junior school places. From the pupils we know of those who were typically within in about the top 60 percent of their primary got in to MGS juniors and will go automatically into the secondary school.

Sale Grammar is also now competing for the most academically promising pupils and the change of entrance exam format will be an interesting insight into what lies ahead.

OP . The large majority do tutor(private and state) but I have friends who have got children into the grammars through tutoring and some now admit that they wish they hadn't as they've had to tutor their children all the way through secondary school. It is madness and personally I would like to see a change in exam format every year with no practice papers available and schools being able to assess as they please to make it as tutor proof as possible.
In answer to your original question I'd choose a school based on what is right for your child be that private state, academic or more vocational.

I have less of a problem with schools deciding who to allow to do a levels or not, than those who "pull the plug" if students don't get high enough as level grades. It's very hard to find a new school/college in the middle of a levels, especially as not all schools offer the same subjects/combinations.

Its. if a child attained an A grade at GCSE they should be perfectly able to attain at least a D grade at AS level, provided they don't mess about.

Schools set realistic targets for their students to achieve provided they work hard ( special circumstances, disabilities exempted ). There should not even be a problem even if a school sets a minimum B standard at AS level, provided the student has come though the schools entry requirements.

believe it or not some students actually improve their relative grades from GCSE - AS , A2 level. I know of boys who got 3A grades at GCSE , so predictions based on assumptions would be B grades at best for AS level getting 4A grades at AS level. Their scores were 91, ,92 for two and the other two in the high eighties, meaning the school possibly could . predict A grades at A2. A at A2 level would be totally unpredictable based on only 3 A grades at GCSE.

Students who do not attain the minimum grade of D/C for AS level at any selective school are 'pissing about' or wasting everybody's time.

Fletcher in my own experience many moons ago highly pressurised academic affluent girls schools are rife with issues over confidence, rebellion and lots of eating disorders. It may not be like that now but I am not sure. Not letting DCs carry on to A level is another eye opener.

Stevie77 surely most DC in the grammar system are from Trafford?

Stevie have responded to your message. Your post is slightly incorrect though - there is no 11+ in Trafford now, the schools just have their own entrance exam. If you don't want your child to sit an entrance exam for the grammars (or a private school) your child won't do an exam at all.

And the grammar schools don't favour out of catchment children at all. Have a look at the admission criteria. There are some places that are reserved for out of catchment children (I have heard that its 30% but I don't know whether that is correct) but those children have to achieve a higher pass mark than children within catchment.

Thanks for the correction.

I feel, that even 30%, is a lot. I understand that grammar schools, by definition, are more academic therefore will take in the brightest children. I guess what I mean is that I feel it should be as difficult to get into a Trafford grammar as it is to get into any out of catchment comp. I don't think our children (our as in local) should be disadvantaged by having to essentially compete for school places with children from across G Mcr.

My husband went to a local grammar many many moons ago, and did very well out of it. Today, he'd probably have no chance in similar circumstances (working class background, non-pushy parents etc) and that saddens me.

Tiggy This is the same in Trafford too.

The better comps have notoriously tight catchment areas.

Thanks for your input everyone... I am now enlightened and personally leaning towards the right school for my child whether DCs primary education is through the state sector or private sector... :-)

I too found it extremely enlightening !! Huge amount to think about

I live in Trafford near the Manchester border. My eldest is at Stretford Grammar. Luckily for us it is the 'poor relation' for pushy parents of the grammars. It has a high proportion of Asian students (50-70% depending on year) and, as stated above, is largely from state primaries. It is small and very nurturing and perfect for my rather anxious DS who does not need massive high pressure academics like there appears to be at some of the other schools locally. Looking at the Trafford 11+ forum you would think it doesn't exist, everyone is angsting about AGGS and ABGS and they even use 'SGS' as an acronym for Sale Grammar School without apparently noticing that Stretford Grammar has the same name! I would apply for a Manchester comp though (and hope we live near enough) for my DS2 if he doesn't pass the exam when the time comes.

same initials, not same name...

clairewitchproject can I ask - did your ds go to a trafford primary or Manchester primary before SGS. We are near the border too.

A Manchester primary. Weekly tutor during year 5. At the time we lived in Manchester, about half a mile from where we are now, but the Manchester side of the border!

Clairewitch was tutoring the norm around you to for those aiming for grammar? It looked like a lot of Stretford Grammar DC come from Manchester schools

Yes, You couldn't pass the 11+ without some sort of tutoring, either by parents or a tutor. Themaths includes stuff not covered in year 5 curriculum, they won't have ever seen a nvr question, and the 'verbal' reasoning is all about codes etc and needs familiarisation.

Thank you. At least I now know when we need to decide whether to go for it and that a good tutor will be needed etc I assume you must get lots if year 3 parents at open days too

Can anyone give me an idea of what the hourly rate for an individual tutor us? Is an hour a week normal?

I live in the Trafford catchment and my children currently attend a lovely (not private) state primary school in the area.

I also have a child in that academic year. From the parents conversations at school most are aiming for AGSB as that is classed as the best for boys, followed closely by MGS. Then Sale Grammar then Stretford or private. Ambrose is classed as best for those with a catholic persuasion, followed by St Beads.

Every child who is aiming for grammar with a realistic prospect of success has had some form of tutoring. Most children are privately tutored or attend Kumon/Explore learning. Also to add to the fact that state schools don't prepare - those in the hale/altrincham area do. My DC's school puts on extra lessons for children wishing to partake in grammar school entrance exams.

I opted out for personal reasons relating to my DC. I have been treated like a pariah! I know that the state schools in my catchment are amazing and I am looking forward to DC starting there. I am also aware that my DC would have floundered under that pressure, so AGSB would not have been the right choice for my child.

Tutors currently range from £20 for bog standard - those with a record of successfully tutoring children into certain schools charge up to £40 per session.

I should warn those that move specifically - it starts early. Our infant school expect students to be a level above national average in maths/English - just being on target isn't enough.

Also last year, during conversations about tutors due to having a child in year 5, I was advised to find a tutor for my reception child, when they enter year 5, as the best ones are already fully booked. I did enquire with one tutor who advised that to gain private lessons, my reception (aged 4) child, would be on a waiting list, to be tutored when they enter year 5. I will be advised in year 3 as to the position on said waiting list.

It's fucking crazy actually and I would prefer to live in an area where children just went from a local primary to the local secondary.

Clairewitchproject - most of the schools in trafford no longer just have the 11+ - there are individual entrance exams, dependant on the school you are applying for. Whilst I am sure there are lots of bright children who should get in to grammar schools, unfortunately I think they will be disadvantaged by children who have been regularly practising these types of papers.

Reindeer - yes when I said 11+ I meant the individual exams for each school. It isn't just one exam for all the Trafford Grammars.

And 40 pound an hour makes me want to weep