Trafford area 11+ and tutoring

[smileyface128]

Hello mums,

I was recently told by someone that every parent in trafford tutors their children with the aim of getting them into the local grammar schools. Whilst not 'every' parent will do it, Is this the case? Do even the children who get sent to the local private schools get tutored too generally? I'm thinking of sending my children to the local private schools with the understanding that they might prepare them better for the 11+ exams (as opposed to tutoring them intensively in the run up).....
The person who told me about the tutoring basically said, there is no advantage to paying for private schools to get into the grammar schools as everyone tutors anyway and the local schools are excellent..... Any thought highly appreciated. Thank you

That sounds about right 17, though I can't seem to find any official figures.

Is there a feeling that ... If everyone tutors... The schools are more relaxed about getting the children to pass the entrance exams? Ie, that someone else can do the work? Or are the local prep schools very focused on exam preparation?

I have since heard elsewhere that the prep schools are massively focused on entrance exams as that is what the paying parents want ie go to prep and ensure high level of exam prep and schools judged by results. This means that private may not be right for some children in that area. I would love to know a Trafford teachers answer on why state schools don't. I assume as they have to cater for all children. Special groups for those who are trying the exams won't work if they are all doing different exams. It still makes he think that this creates a wealth divide etc

I have posted this elsewhere - but am repeating this because it seems so unfair that state schools are criticised for not doing something that they are not ALLOWED to do.

Ladybird, state schools, by law, are not allowed to offer 11+ preparation. I agree that it perpetuates the wealth divide, but that is the situation. Even in Kent, 100% selective county, state schools are allowed to do 1 familiarisation test, and that is it. 'Disciplinary action' is suggested as the penalty should a teacher or school give their pupils 11+ prep.

Thank you teacher I had no idea !!! That totally explains it. And yes that can mean those that can pay do etc

It still makes he think that this creates a wealth divide etc Of course there is. Grammar schools are for the middle classes who can afford private prep and tutoring. Oh, and the parents have to have the time to make the children practise. So, I bet single parent families would be under represented in state grammar schools.

Extract from the Ofsted Altrincham Grammar School for boys
"The proportion of students eligible for free school meals is very low and the school has very few students with learning difficulties and/or disabilities. Around one in five students come from a range of minority ethnic groups and very small numbers do not speak English as their first language."

No surprises there! The grammar school system is socially divisive in the extreme IMO.

Nevertheless, ladybird perhaps look on the websites of some of the Manchester Comprehensives. Considering their broad spectrum of pupils, you might find that some of them do very well. If you are in South Manchester, William Hulme is one of the top performing. Barlow High is good too.

This whole thread has been an eye opener for me. In South Manchester people seem to talk lots about moving to Trafford so DC can go to grammar. It's easy to think we should do the same to get the best education for ours. No one ever talks about the fact that this may involve lots of tutoring, cash outlay, only 20 percent getting in etc They seem to assume if they move there, then DC will get in to e.g. Alty girls or boys. I had wrongly assumed that the state schools helped them prep as the grammars are state schools too. I do not want to send my DC to private school personally and love the diversity of where they are. I am now thinking it's better to stay put!! And yes, Manchester schools are just fine - much better than previous and improving all the time

My kids go to Barlow High and I have been very impressed with it. They are doing really well and my friends' children have just got fab GCSEs from there including one girl who got all As and A*s. The comprehensives have a very diverse intake but the whole world is diverse so, in my opinion, there is no harm in meeting kids from all backgrounds. I decided not to go for the stress of entrance exams to Trafford grammars mostly because I am against the grammar school system.

Acid Thanks for the insight. Barlow will be one of our options in the future and I have heard lots of good things recently. Hope it doesn't end up too over subscribed lol. There are other options too. I have to say I am getting more and more put off the grammar school system. High pressure highly selective girls schools in particular make me nervous

Like Loretto? I have no doubt it is a good school but I really don't believe that the grammars are the be all and end all. There is a lot of snobbery about and my advice is don't get dragged in. Go to open evenings and look at your options - there are lots of open evenings coming up in September and at the end of it all just do what you think is best for your child :)

By the way, Barlow is already oversubscribed (or so they claim) so check out the admissions criteria.

Good luck!

I realised that it's easy to work out roughly what proportion go to grammar v non by PAN numbers on the Trafford web site and allowing god the fact that a few out if area DC go to those schools. Eg Sale and Stretford grammars v Sale and Stretfird high ... Hopefully South Manchester schools will just keep improving anyway.

If in South Manchester considering a move I'd compare the non selective Trafford option with the Manchester comps before moving as a fraction of kids go to the grammars...

Elizabeth I am beginning to realise that. There is so much hype about grammars, that it is tempting to think you are letting DC down if you dont try and get them in.. So much about how they are some of the best schools in the country and this week about private school performance and Oxbridge / future earnings. Lots of people also go private near us for secondary for same reason. I just wish it was more of a level playing field. OP sorry this thread got hijacked. !!!

If you don't mind moving Priestnall High is a very good school.

If you are in South Manchester, William Hulme is one of the top performing.

I though William Hulme had been declining for a few years now due to the change from it being an indie to a state academy school.

Miss that is an interesting observation. The primary is not as good as several of the other local ones according to the MEN school guide. Must look at the secondary data as I do recall it not been miles ahead of the others when I looked a couple of years back .... And yes I believe Priestnall very good. Lots of options

I though William Hulme had been declining for a few years now due to the change from it being an indie to a state academy school.

The current academy opened in 2007. It is non-selective now and non-fee paying and therefore, it is a completely different school. This is what Ofsted says about its intake.

William Hulme’s Grammar School is an ‘all through’ academy of average size and opened in
2007.
? The academy has an Early Years Foundation Stage, Key Stages 1 and 2 (primary phase), Key
Stages 3 and 4 (secondary phase) and a sixth form.
? The proportion of students supported by the pupil premium is above average. (The pupil
premium provides additional funding for those pupils who are known to be eligible for free
school meals and those children looked after by the local authority.)
? A large proportion of students are from a wide variety of minority ethnic backgrounds. The
largest group have Pakistani heritage and represent about two fifths of the school population.
? Almost a half of the students speak English as an additional language, which is well-above
average.

I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure it is genuinely in decline because the school only opened in 2007 after it closed down as a private school. Of course, there were some former private school pupils left in the new academy and therefore, there would be a transition period.

But, I completely agree, it is certainly not the school it was.

I think it's a fair point that it's in effect a totally different school now. It's results will now reflect the fact that it is non selective etc. I was intrigued as to whether it would still get the same results but it appears not now it has a more 'normal' intake

Some of the results still reflect the old school because some of the older pupils would have started in the primary prior to 2007. As those pupils from the old William hulme leave and move to college etc the results are declining. So as acid says, there is a translation period but I don't think we can declare it to be a very good school until the cohort is fully non selective and not previous fee paying pupils.

The Barlow is the feeder school to my DCs primary. We looked at it last year as my eldest is starting Yr 6. I was impressed.

But I am afraid we have been swept up in the "what school are you going to?" My DC has had a tutor for some of the Trafford schools as their friends have been doing it. I have been nagged into it. Having a tutor is like fight club. "What's the first rule of tutor club? Don't talk about having a tutor!"

DC wants to try but, as we live in South Manchester, I am now faced with the very big chance that DC won't get a place. The whole thing is stressful

always that is soo true no one ever talks about having a tutor it's ridiculous! In fact so even mentions entrance exams it's like no one wants to be seen to be tutoring when in actually fact almost all parents are!

I actually feel like running away and hiding after trying to complete the vr book our new tutor has asked to be completed for next week. Dd is usually very strong at vr so came as a bit of a shock to her when she struggled with the last few pages but to be fair it was very hard. God help us when we get onto the maths!

Always I know what you mean. I'm guessing your DC goes to the primary on the same road as Barlow. I just opted out of it all and did not engage in any conversations about entrance exams although I witnessed a lot of anxiety from other parents. In fact it did my head in just listening to it. I think there is a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses" about. Loads of kids from last year's yr 6 are going to The Barlow including one of mine. All the parents I know with kids there are impressed with it. We shall see!

Always and Fletcher I always wondered if the whole tutor grammar thing extended from one end of School Lane to the other ... Now I know lol. I have more than once over heard people going on about trying to get into Loreto or Ambrose or going private ....

I'm coming late to this thread, but I'm really surprised at the idea that only a few state school pupils go to grammar school in Trafford. I know many many state schoolers who have gone to grammar.

Is it really worth me bothering putting my child through the stress of exams if the probability of getting in is so low?