Argument with DH over deceased MIL’s belongings

[Amariel13]

DH lost his mother in late January; she had a very quick decline due to cancer, it was all very sudden and the family was left reeling. He and his sisters have started clearing out the house, as they’re preparing to sell it (although there is a chance we will buy them all out and keep it) and are worried about leaving valuables there in case it’s robbed. They’ve done jewellery and some electronics, today they did the crystal and glassware.

DH has come home with a ton of glassware. I had no idea she had this much and was a bit overwhelmed in the moment seeing it all laid out on my dining room table - and I said “where are we going to put it all?”. I sensed the shift in his mood immediately and clarified it by saying our China cabinet is full so I’ll have to do some rearranging to get it all to fit. He said he was thinking we could replace some of our glassware with hers, I agreed that we could definitely replace a few things, as hers was nicer/better quality. But that still leaves a heap of things that I need to find a home for (I didn’t say this out loud). He then mentioned there’s more they didn’t get to and that he’d like to take more of it. I tried to gently say that we’re not going to be able to take everything and that, at some point, some things are going to have to go. This got his back up immediately and he asked what i
meant. I pointed out that we’re going to receive items from his grandfather, my grandmother, and my parents at some point when they all pass and that while we’d love to keep all of their possessions, it’s just not practical. He seemed to calm a little but insisted he still wanted more of his mum’s glassware.

I tried to change the subject and said we can’t leave it all on the table, as the kids will get to it in the morning (they’re between 2 and 8). We’re also hosting his family for dinner tomorrow and have kids sport to contend with, so I said can we pack it all up and I’ll start rearranging everything this week when I have time. DH started putting crystal glasses and decanters on the sink, saying they needed to be washed. Then started trying to put stuff on our China cabinet. I repeated about packing it away until we had more time to actually go through our stuff (thinking maybe he didn’t want me to do it on my own), and he lost it. He started shouting at me that he asked 3 times what I wanted him to do with it but that I hadn’t answered. I responded that I had twice said can we pack it all up for now, he started yelling what does that even mean. I said that we need to wrap it all back up and put it back in the boxes. He (still yelling) demanded to know where I wanted to put the boxes, I suggested our ensuite/walk in robe because they’d be safe from the kids in there. He angrily packed everything up and started yelling about how he’ll just take it all back to his mum’s, how he wishes he hadn’t taken anything, and said all I’m worried about is getting hypothetical stuff from others and then said some quite nasty things about my family.

I was quite angry by this point but knew being at his mum’s today had clearly upset him so tried to keep my cool. I did tell him to stop putting words in my mouth and that I never once said we couldn’t keep the things he’d brought home; in fact, I’d said a number of times that I’d be making room for them. I also said his family are coming tomorrow so I don’t want the house a mess, we won’t have time to go through everything so it will have to wait. He stormed off to put the boxes in our robe, came back still yelling and has gone to watch tv in the lounge. I decided to remove myself from the situation because I don’t want to fight and I don’t like the way he spoke to me, so now I’m in the bedroom.

While I don’t think I’m wrong in thinking that we can’t take everything that a deceased family member leaves behind, I realise that this probably wasn’t the time to bring it up - but I’m now worried that he’s going to refuse to throw away or donate anything, so if his sisters don’t want it, it’s going to end up here. Our house isn’t big and already feels cluttered to me. We have 3 kids and can only get rid of so much.

I don’t even really know why I’m posting. I just feel like I’m damned no matter what I do or say. Advice on how to proceed?

That is tempting but not really addressing the issue of having too much stuff. Another china cabinet takes up space, and when it is full do you get another one and so on?

I lost my parents relatively young in my 30s, and it does take a bit of time to realise you can’t keep it all, and that it doesn’t really represent them or bring them back. My brother stuggled more so with wanting to keep and hold on to things.
As you know and others have said, it’s raw grief. It’s horrible you were in the firing line but it sounds like he is in the depths, it’s still very early days.
Agree with another poster who said not mentioning other people who are yet to pass - not your fault, it is true - but he won’t be able to think about that just now. Let him put it away in time he’ll see more chips, less room, and be able to process it all a bit clearer. He’ll likely decide / realise, you can’t keep it all. You might have to sit with discomfort of clutter while he processes so steel yourself a bit. I think your support and suggestions all sounded totally valid - he can’t leave a load of glassware out with LO’s around etc. You were being rational
when he couldn’t so just remind yourself of that. You sound like a very supportive partner!

I think you handled it badly even though I know it was unintentional. I’d have left him to it and if the house was messy when your visitors come then it would be messy. It just doesn’t matter. I think you will have come across as bossy and annoyed.
I not the least bit sentimental and I suspect when my MIL dies my husband will bring things over that I really don’t want or like so I do understand.
What would have been nicer would have been to admire the glass and crystal and ask him about his day. I wouldn’t get involved in cleaning it or putting it away though.

Agree with others that this isn’t about you or the glasses but a massive jolt of grief.

Presumably they packed up the glassware at his Mum’s so I’m confused about why he chose to unpack it at your house and put it all on the dining table without really thinking through where there was room for it all, especially as you have young children. Maybe he’s simply not thinking.

I cannot begin to understand what he’s going through because I have not lost my parents, but I did my best to support him (and his sisters) while his mum was sick and continue to do my best now. It has been a shitty 7 months as a DIL who knew and loved her MIL for 19 years (more than half my life) - I cannot imagine what DH and his sisters are going through. I have also never compared losing a grandparent to losing a parent - it’s absolutely not the same.

I also do not think that grieving gives you the right to speak to your spouse in such a nasty and disrespectful way. I never once raised my voice, or spoke nastily to him. I have acknowledged that I didn’t handle the situation well at the time and will be better prepared the next time something like this happens. This is new for me as well, and I’ve been operating based on the DH I’ve known for the last 19 years. I’m doing my best to handle the kids and the house along with my actual paid job so that he can be there for his sisters and have space if he needs it and handle his mum’s estate - we have so far been doing a damn good job of muddling through it together, but this evening it seems was too much for us.

I’m terribly sorry for your loss and hope you’re doing much better now.

My mother died at the end of November and I was clearing her flat - together with my brothers in January. It was astonishing how much stuff my mother had.

My younger brother was the one who wanted to hang onto just about everything. He lives in a modestly sized house that was already very over furnished, but still wanted lots of big items - armchairs, a dining table, a bed, all my mother's china in a way that didn't seem terribly rational. But as he lives alone there isn't the issue of what a partner thinks.

Really I'd say the main immediate issue is how things can be stored safely, temporarily, when there are young children. Perhaps the main things are to get him to realise the need for this - so nothing gets broken and non one gets hurt. The second thing is for him to work out where items can be kept on a more permanent basis.

Maybe ask him to come up with a plan. If the idea is that the fancy glassware should be used, it's worth pointing out that stuffing and stacking things isn't going to work well.

Messy was probably the wrong word, but we have 3 young children and 7 more visiting tomorrow evening - leaving glassware out would’ve almost guaranteed something would be broken. Plus, we need the dining table to eat at.

I did leave out bits of the conversation where we did talk about some of the pieces - particularly some pieces I recognised. I also asked about a couple I didn’t remember seeing at all.

Yes, everything was packed at MIL’s before being brought home. I think it was partially to show me what he’d gotten and partially because he wanted to start putting it away straightaway.

You were being a bit harsh there ...collecting items from his mum's house after her recent death would be upsetting for him

comparing his mother’s death to grandparents, and talking about your priority being dessert and what to make is compounding you coming across as being insensitive/ lacking in understanding of what he’s going through. You need to listen more, and you need to accept that your feelings about the china cupboard and making dessert take the back seat.

have a heart it’s horrendous going through a dead parents things
I would of got one thing in pride of place straight away then boxed the rest up and sort it at a later date when it’s not so raw
I’d be so upset if you did that to me

Where did I compare losing a parent to losing a grandparent? I’ve never done that as it’s definitely not the same. I also never said out loud my priority was making dessert, although it was on my to do list for this evening.

I can see both sides.

The thing is that life really does go on. The children still need to play safely and to be able to have their friends round.

Having some cupboard stuffed to the gills doesn't really bring the person back

I think the man is struggling to juggle being a bereaved son and having to deal with the fact he's still the father of young children. Hard when the children are so very young

And it's also tough for the original poster - because she's having to carry everything and everyone. In her shoes I'd be pointing that out. The children's lives have to carry on, even while their dad is grieving.

This is how hoarding starts.

Not with "is this stuff useful, can ee find space for it" but with "I don't want to part with this". Thenreason here is because it was his mum's and he's still raw.

But he was out of line to dump it - physically and metaphorically - on you without discusdion or warning and then blow up on you when you raised rational.objections and suggestions. Grieving doesn't give houncarte blanche to be verbally abusive to your wife.

He needs to get a grip on it all, start thinking with his head, and stop shouting at you.

I winced at your comment about what you want to display in “your” china cabinet. That comment maybe me think you’re some kind of budding Hyacinth Bucket!

Your husband has lost his mum. Who gives a crap what your display cabinet contains? If his stuff doesn’t fit, move your stuff.

Why didn’t you think, “well for a couple of years our best wedding china could go in a box, after all we’ve been staring at it for 19 years. And then my dh could get some comfort from having his mum’s things around him. And we can switch it all round when he’s feeling better about everything.”

I would have quietly made space, and I’d have run a bowl of soapy water and chucked a tea cloth at dh and asked him about the glasses - does he remember where his mum got them, which were her favourites, did she always prefer to use particular glasses for particular occasions.

It took me two years to go through all my mother’s belongings (which included those of my grandparents and my uncle and my late father). I sobbed every single time I had to open a box of family things knowing i would need to get rid of 90% of it. It wasn’t a job I could do at a first pass, or a second pass, or even a third pass. It was a labour of years.

Most men have somewhere along the line learned to suppress emotion, perhaps not even recognising how they feel. And anger can be one of the ways that bottled-up emotion breaks free.

Forgive him for his anger, forgive yourself for being cold-hearted, and move on.

That really didn't merit a 7 paragraph post!.Cut the poor guy some slack!

If this was a one off outburst brought on by grief, you need to go very easy on him and perhaps even offer to let him put his mum's glasses in the display cabinet for now, provided he packs up the other things and puts the boxes away. If he is normally so illogical and bossy, there is a bigger problem because this kind of behaviour is not OK.

I remember the awfulness of seeing my mum's precious possessions scattered hither and hither and how much I wanted to protect them and see them valued, so I sympathise.

Grief is universal, so is frustration when your partner is not supporting you when you need it, regardless of the sex of the person experiencing it.

Thank you for that - I'm fine now cheers. Time is a great healer.
You sound kind and I'm 100% sure nothing you did was intentional. But I do think you just have to give people (temporary) leeway to be an irrational dick when stuff like this happens. It doesn't "give him the right" to shout, that is really unfair on you. But it, IMO, means you shouldn't take the shouting personally. If he's normally a loving person then yes it makes it harder to process for it but also it's good evidence it's just the grief talking and hitting him harder than maybe he realises. Wishing you and him all the best processing the horrible loss x

@AlteFrau “Having some cupboard stuffed to the gills doesn't really bring the person back”

Of course it doesn’t. But I take comfort and pleasure from using and handling things that belonged to my late parents. It gives me peace of mind knowing those things are there; it’s a thread of connection to people I treasured, to happy memories.

People have all sorts of needs to help them in their grief. Some visit graves. Some take up a charity marathon. Others keep possessions.

My DPs house wasn't cluttered as they had been sorting things gradually over their retirement and did a good job.

We started by removing the paperwork and jewellery, disconnecting appliances for insurance. Crockery and glassware we either sold, donated or stored in spare room boxes until we felt we knew what we wanted to part with. Didn't sell until after probate

I don't think you were being unreasonable at all. All you were asking is for cleaning the glassware and putting it away to be delayed whilst you sort out where it will go. He would be very upset and angry if any of it got broken.

Grief isn't a free pass to be rude and nasty. If he's not coping he's needs to get some bereavement counselling. Also, whilst it's not the same, you are grieving too, you were obviously very fond of your MiL and he is forgetting that too.

Once things have settled down a bit sit him down with no interruptions and lay down some expectations about how he communicates during this time. And talk about how much 'stuff'' he can reasonably hang on to - or getting a storage unit temporarily You won't resolve everything in one chat but you need his commitment to not take his feelings out on you (or the kids). If he can't control himself he needs to go for a walk or go somewhere quiet to calm down. This is why counselling would be helpful - to give him a toolkit to help manage his emotions.

Also as an aside I think buying MiL's house sounds like a terrible idea, especially if he's very emotionally attached to it. Still having access to it won't help him move on. Plus renting is getting every more difficult, stressful and expensive for small or novice landlords, many are getting out due to all the tax and legislative changes. When it's a family home it can be very hard to see it as 'just' a rental. Seeing normal wear & tear and it not looking or feeling the same as it once did is bad enough but tenants may damage it and break things (not necessarily intentionally, though bad tenants can cause major damage). If it has a nice garden that will inevitably deteriorate as well which can be sad to see, but tenants can't be expected to spend the same sort of time and money on a garden as an owner does. Renting it out in my view would be worse than selling it.

Yes it is universal but oddly it doesn't seem to be universally women that use it as a reason to shout, scream, bully, opt out of family life or shag someone else.

I couldn't disagree more.

My ex loved his mum. His small flat is stuffed to the ceiling with her 1950 post-War utility furniture ( including glass cabinets made with glass that breaks) 35 years after she died.

My DH just lost his mum, and no way does that give him permission to trample my boundaries and then verbally abuse me for objecting. Especially if his behaviour involved decanting boxes of glassware in the dining room the day before we were having his family over for dinner.

Oh please. OP did listen, was sensitive to his needs. The dessert and hospitality is to host DHs family.

Or are you saying that is less important than her children's safety and hosting family.

Your response fails to factor in the needs of the whole house and family...which OP was gently trying to share.