Why are primary and secondary school teachers paid the same if secondary school teachers have a degree and then do a PGCE?

[worried63xx]

Just a genuine question really, not meant to antagonise.
Don't secondary school teachers have to have better qualifications to get into teaching?

Primary school teachers do a PGCE too.

But you need a degree and a PGCE to teach primary!

Surely for primary mainly your degree is the teaching degree you go straight into from A Levels not a degree in another actual subject?

Not necessarily. Your degree could be in anything and then you do the PGCE to become a qualified teacher

I have two degrees and a PGCE. I teach primary.
Lots of primary school teachers don't have an education or teaching degree but a PGCE.

It's exactly the same for primary teachers as secondary. You do a degree such as Maths, English Literature, Geography etc. Then afterwards you do a PGCE. You can do education as your degree but I don't know any teachers who did that, and after that degree you can then go into primary or secondary anyway!

Not necessarily. You can do a PGCE in either Primary or Secondary.
And yes, you can do a straight B.Ed leading you straight into a primary classroom, but a for secondary, a degree in another subject doesn't train you for actually teaching it, so you need the PGCE as well.

I did an English degree, followed by a PGCE and I'm a primary teacher.

An education degree with qualified teacher status is a 4 year course- incorporates the degree in education and the professional qualification.
But I know very few teachers that did it. I have history degree and pgce, mainly taught primary including early years.

Imagine room of 30 5 year olds.

I’m primary and my degree is psychology and linguistics. I teach all subjects to 3-7. I had to pick a specialism for my primary course, for that they looked at your degree, but although linguistics related to English they had enough English specialists so they picked my best A level which was Art. Since I’ve been employed no one has cared about my specialism and I’ve been in charge of DT, ICT, Maths and SEN over the years.

Back when I started teaching forty years ago, most primary teachers did education degrees.

That's not been the case for a while. It's now the norm to do a degree in another subject and then do a PGCE

Having said that, why do you think an education degree is worth less than a degree in anything else?

I’m a primary teacher with a MA and a PGCE... and I’m not a rare breed!

So glad you took 30 seconds on Google to address your misconceptions, OP, instead of diving in with an irritatingly incorrect thread.

Primary PGCE course I should say. There are quite a few routes to teaching nowadays.

V good question, @saraclara.

There are lots of ways into teaching.

I am a qualified secondary school teacher and have a BEd Business Education degree. It was with QTS and therefore no need to do a PGCE. My subject specialisms was ICT, Computing, Business, and Economics.

Dd plans to go to university to become a primary school teacher. She plans to do a BA Primary Education. Depending on where she goes she will choose a subject specialism and/or an age specialism. The degree has QTS and therefore no degree is required.

The other main alternative to doing an education degree in both secondary and primary is a subject degree, followed by a PGCE year. Some may follow other ways into teaching once they have their degree - there are a few routes out there.

The PGCE (and the other alternatives) covers education theory and a lot of work experience. This is incorporated into the education degrees.

QTS is qualified teacher status. On completing a relevant course - be that an education degree, PGCE or whatever you are then recommended by the university or college for QTS. The Teaching Regulation Agency (TRA) are responsible for awarding this.

An education degree with qualified teacher status is a 4 year course

For primary most are actually 3 years. Of the ones we have been to the Open Days for, only Nottingham Trent was 4 years.

@saraclara I don't think it's less. I am counting a degree in english for example as one qualification and then PGCE as the next. The majority of primary teachers I know are doing the 3 year straight into primary qualification which is one qualification. So therefore logically I wondered surely secondary might get paid more if they have that extra qualification? Just like someone with a masters might get a higher position or wages.
As I said I didn't meant to antagonise and I didn't realise many people did primary PGCE. I was under the assumption from a lot of primary teachers I know that the 3 year education degree was the main route and I was curious.

I did a BEd and I teach in secondary. (Was trained for primary thou!)

Various routes into teaching in England, for both primary and secondary: www.ucas.com/postgraduate/teacher-training/train-teach-england/routes-teaching-england?filter=

It is also worth noting that although a teacher may train in a specific sector - primary or secondary for example - they are actually qualified to teach in either sector once they have their qualification and QTS. I have known teachers do this in both directions.

Just like someone with a masters might get a higher position or wages.

In teaching you don't get a more money just cause you gain additional qualifications along the way. If a qualified teacher does a masters they won't automatically get a pay increase.

BEd is four years, not three. 3yr degree + 1, same as pgce + degree.

The only people I know who did B.eds are secondary school teachers. All of my primary colleagues did first degree/PGCE, or like me, Degree, PGCE and M.ed.

So no. In no way are secondary teachers 'more qualified' as a rule.

The most important thing you need for teaching in England and Wales is QTS. You cannot work in a maintained school without it.