Why are primary and secondary school teachers paid the same if secondary school teachers have a degree and then do a PGCE?

[worried63xx]

Just a genuine question really, not meant to antagonise.
Don't secondary school teachers have to have better qualifications to get into teaching?

[donkeyoatey]

Primary teacher. Science degree then PGCE. My Primary Head Teacher really likes the depth of knowledge we all have from different first degrees. It helps when you are on relevant curriculum team ie: computing or music or geography etc..

[sweetkitty]

I have a BSc in a biological science and a PGDE in Primary Teaching if I had wanted to teach science at secondary I would have had the same thing therefore get paid the same.

[Sittinonthefloor]

The pay isn’t that bad imo, especially when you consider the holidays. It’s just that the workload that is so bad! Not necessarily paid more in private schools either. Did you go to school yourself? Surely you observed that there were more teachers than slt?

[worried63xx]

@Sittinonthefloor As I've said I'm aware that there are less SLT and leadership compared to classroom teachers. I was asking if there is a desire for many teachers to change from classroom teachers to leadership in terms of their intentions. I wasn't actually asking if all teachers have leadership roles... It was about career progression and the goals of teachers in general...

[cantkeepawayforever]

I have a degree, a PhD (both Oxbridge science), a PGCE ... and am a primary class teacher.

The thing about class teaching vs SLT / headships in primary is that
a) Almost all SLT roles other than headship come with almost full time class teacher responsibility (usually SLT members also work 4 full days in class, getting a single half day - usually an afternoon, because it's shorter - extra on top of standard PPA) , so SLT is 'as well as' being a class teacher, rather than 'instead of'. With primary teaching already being hard work - emotionally, and physically as well as the teaching / paperwork hours (96 - 128 books to mark daily is normal in KS2) - many very capable teacher decide not to add the extra hours, worry and paperwork that SLT responsibilities entail.

b) Headship is a very different job from teaching, and many teachers like teaching children. Thus many class teachers don't see headship as 'progression', more as 'a move to a different job' - not necessarily one they are attracted by. A good teacher doesn't make a good head, not does a good head need to have been a good teacher - they are different skill sets.

[TimeforanotherChange]

Most teachers I have known in my 30 years are not 'aiming' for SLT. Most teachers went into it because they wanted to teach - and to be honest the best/only decent part of the job is actually being in the classroom.

[Drabarni]

One of my dc Primary teachers degree was pottery.
They were taught in college by a Maths degree holder, subject Sociology
It doesn't matter.
I have no GCSE's or A levels, but Degree and PgCE, and have taught.

[fedup21]

It was about career progression and the goals of teachers in general

It’s a ‘piece of string’ question though, isn’t it? There are a no ‘goals of teachers in general’.

Some teachers want to just do the job, others want to go for promotion.

Same with nurses, lawyers, accountants, MPs and everyone else in the world.

[cantkeepawayforever]

Timeforchange - I would agree. Many great classroom teachers see a move to SLT being 'an increase in the bit of the teaching job that they like the least' (with a rise in overall workload as well), and a move to primary headship as a complete removal of the bit of the job they like.

[worried63xx]

@fedup21 Yes that's true I guess everyone is different but I was just interested if there were any general trends or patterns.

[Piggywaspushed]

I actually went into teaching with the ambition of being a headteacher and/or an education lecturer.

Neither has happened , or is likely to, mind.

[cantkeepawayforever]

I would say that, in my general experience in primary, those who enter the profession 'aiming for SLT' are the poorest classroom practitioners. The very best teachers stay as class teachers, though some do eventually get dragged into SLT through their expertise. SENCos would be an honorable exception to this - they are generally excellent classroom teachers who develop an expertise in teaching and managing the needs of the children with the highest needs.

[Musicalmistress]

I teach primary & have a doctorate. My initial degree was in education which seems to be more common in Scotland than England.

[saraclara]

I never had any intention of being anything other than a class teacher or head of year (primary/special). I would hate to be a head or deputy. Those jobs have virtually nothing to do with the children.

[Piggywaspushed]

Generally, teaching is a meritocracy rather than being about the awe of qualifications and brains. So you get on if you work hard, apply for roles, do 'well' in those and can prove yourself ready, willing and able. Is the theory.

The trouble is 'merit' is very subjectively measured! And in some schools , sad to say, high levels of intelligence or academic brilliance/qualifications are held in some distrust.

[ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords]

The majority of primary teachers I know are doing the 3 year straight into primary qualification which is one qualification

This suggests they are not teachers yet, so do you mean you know a lot of people on that course? There will be many more people currently studying for a PGCE. The vast majority of teachers do a first degree followed by a PGCE.

[fedup21]

I would say that, in my general experience in primary, those who enter the profession 'aiming for SLT' are the poorest classroom practitioners. The very best teachers stay as class teachers, though some do eventually get dragged into SLT through their expertise


I’m completely agree with this.

What are your career aims, @worried63xx

[cantkeepawayforever]

high levels of intelligence or academic brilliance/qualifications are held in some distrust

I go by 'Mrs Can't' in school for exactly this reason. As a mature PGCE student - teaching is a second career - with a firmly academic CV, I was advised by my PGCE mentor that choosing to be known as 'Dr Can't' in the classroom would pretty much ensure that I would NEVER get an NQT job.... and she was right.

[Piggywaspushed]

God, isn't that AWFUL?

We have three drs in my school. Two are scientists and one is English. No problems for them but I know brains can be distrusted. The 'ideas above her station' rhetoric.

[cantkeepawayforever]

Piggy, I don't know of any primary teachers known as Dr. I don't know how many others with PhDs 'fly under the radar' like me.

[MyNameIsJane]

I thought (this may be incorrect) that primary school teachers now have to have a science gcse A-C as well as English & Maths? Whereas secondary school teachers do not have to have science.

[cantkeepawayforever]

It was hard enough to get an NQT job as it was ... when the prospective NQT is both older and (at least on paper) 'better qualified / more academic' than anyone in the interviewing panel, it can be difficult.

[Piggywaspushed]

Assume that is because a primary teacher will teach science though jane. When I qualified in the eighteenth century we needed Eng, maths and science for secondary.

Have just realised I did qualify last century

[Aragog]

My name - no science GCSE requirement needed for current courses. Only English and maths are a grade 4/C is specified.

[Piggywaspushed]

I think that attitude is probably mirrored cant in OP's idea that secondary teachers are 'cleverer' than you primary teachers who are just kind and hug a bit.