Andrew - continuing his effort to end the Monarchy

[TheHaplessWit]

Another new story on Andrew today. Photo's have emerged showing that on Epstein's desk, there were emails regarding Epstein paying debts owed by Andrew/Sarah to staff:

https://people.com/epstein-had-emails-staff-ex-prince-andrew-sarah-ferguson-new-photos-show-11880419

Why on Earth was a Prince of England having his staff paid by a sex trafficker?
Doesn't seem "too honourable" to me.

Nice little detail in the article about the Sandringham Estate;

The historic, sprawling estate spans approximately 31 sq miles (80 sq km) of gardens - making it around the same size as Nottingham

So that’s nice

31 square miles =
19840 acres btw…

🤔

Yeah I didn't find what he said inspiring, I don't get what all the praise is about.

He said nothing. Saying we 'must remember the victims' is basic. It's courtesy speech at this point. You can churn out this phrase and not give a stuff about the women. Ministers are doing this on camera all the time whilst refusing to spare some time to debate putting some checks on Royal privilege.

Now if he had also mentioned something along the lines of 'In our position as Royals, we must be keenly aware of the example we set/ power should always be balanced with responsibility and privilege should be used in service to others/making the world a better place, not misused or taken advantage of. I only hope those courageous women can receive justice and peace' (he could tactfully stop there, because it should be King Charles 3rd who says whether he feels AMW should testify or not) then I would know he had really thought about it and made those points his own.

I'm dubious that the older male members of the RF (or some men in government) truly get it. I don't think Andrew's views of lower class women being of lesser worth and disposable or even privileged to receive Royal sexual attention is contained to just him, unfortunately. I think they're likely and justifiably horrified about the association with Epstein, in that the name of Epstein is filth and no one wants to be associated with filth. But truly horrified at what he did and the effect on the girls, those girls being of no particular standing? If they cared about the girls how was AMW allowed to get away with his disgusting behaviour? VG paid off?

Misogyny exists all the time everywhere. But misogyny mixed with classism is a whole other level of toxic. Lady Victoria Hervey and Lady Colin Campbell have both talked about the female Epstein victims like they are lolita trash. They are of the same class, so I think those views are pervasive in those circles.

I wouldn't be surprised if the RF had requested the TE files be kept sealed either.

Totally agree

Totally agree.

There seems to be a Harry Potter cloak cast over the Trade Envoy papers and no one in a position of authority is asking why.

Let’s hope the Mandelsohn scandal keeps the focus on Epstein and perhaps brings about their publication in a round about way.

It’s outrageous that we need to be hoping for that though! They should be accessible to the public full stop!

@bluegreygreen

You repeatedly state ‘I’m not excusing Andrew’
Oh but you are .

Great post TightlyLacedCorset

I think it would help if many people stopped seeing Andrew as just a dimwitted venal oaf, and realised that he was capable of orchestrating a great deal of activity.

Andrew gave validity to Epstein. But turning it round somewhat, Andrew himself seems to be right at the heart of a lethal web of intrigue. He’s not the one who ended up dead - Jeffrey Epstein did.

Lots of his friends and acquaintances have ended up dead, in jail, or heading for jail, or with their lives ruined.

Epstein - dead (suicide in prison);
Virginia Giuffre - dead (suicide);
Jean-Luc Brunel (rapist, Epstein’s trafficker, presumed acquaintance of Andrew) - dead (suicide in prison);
Saif Gaddafi (business pal) - reported killed by gunshot a few days ago;
Ghislaine Maxwell - still in prison;
Peter Mandelson (they knew each other well) - potentially heading to prison, life in tatters;
Sarah, Beatrice, Eugenie - under clouds of suspicion, reputations in tatters;
Rest of Royal Family - reputations damaged;
Mette-Marit, Norwegian Royal Family - reputation in tatters.

Andrew’s really, really bad news to know. Like a hex. Really bad shit happens around him.

So I think there might be a groundswell of opinion to get those trade envoy papers unsealed among the public, because I see a lot of social media already heading in that direction. But, as ever, will many MPs have the stomach for it?

@redboxer321

That clip came up on my insta and I totally agree with you. Edward appeared to be acting very oddly but I don’t think I’ve seen him speak before maybe that’s his normal.

Edward appeared to be repeating something he had been prepared to say . I think he was expecting the question- I mean the rest of them just blank questions about royal family abuses don’t they.
Edward took the opportunity it seemed to me to say nothing except to try to muddy the waters . His intonation was odd .

Royalists have been attempting to paint Andrew as a victim for quite some time !

Unbelievable I know .

Perfectly put

I totally agree

Republic have reported Andrew to the police - not for the first time I’d add.

We have 6 years of evidence since Andrew’s BBC interview and worse revealed weekly it seems .

Let’s hope justice will be done and it’s not the usual ‘nothing to see here’

But Palace sources have put out a statement saying Andrew has now moved! That'll shut everyone up!
They are seriously scrabbling around to try and shut this all down. Is that the best they can come out with? Andrew has moved to Norfolk?
Pathetic

Apart from Victoria whatshername I have never seen anyone paint AMW as a victim .

From my previous post on this thread (there have been others):

I want any allegations to be looked at by the police and CPS, to see if there is sufficient evidence to prosecute, as for anyone else.

Whether you believe it or not changes nothing.

@bluegreygreen

Yes I know. And as Andrew has been heavily protected up to this point your ‘evidence’ is bit moot .

And while professing to want Andrew dealt with you try to run down any of his critics . Andrew Lownie mortgaged his own house to fund a court case in order to try to access Mountbatten files that were being withheld

Yet you focus on a childhood rugby game .

@Mylovelygreendress

Of course you havent

@Ukisgaslit I agree. It is uncomfortable to read that the royal family have spent decades protecting Andrew and although as is repeatedly said, everyone thinks he is awful blah blah, I just think a teensy weensy discrediting of the author of a book into the House of York is a comfort to those who think the Windsors can do no wrong.
So despite saying 'why are we talking about him, we all agree he is odious' as a way to shut down threads in the past... well well well, we really have something to talk about now!
And isn't it interesting that many names I recognise on other threads have absolutely nothing to say.

So, bluegreygreen thank you for contributing even though we don't always agree.

Apart from Victoria whatshername I have never seen anyone paint AMW as a victim

Sarah? I know I know, she's as bad as him, but she was forever painting him as the most honourable rock of a man ever to walk the earth, and poor lamb is being picked on.

I have also seen on threads sympathy for him, not since the last Epstein dump, but in the past most definitely

I thought starting off what he said with "Well, with the best will in the world, I'm not sure this is the audience that is the least bit interested in that." wasn't great.

He’s not interested so assumes others aren’t

I want all the allegations looked at by the police and CPS too.

TL; DR below: why are the royal family so fucked up?

I think there also needs to be some sort of inquiry by a qualified professional into whether there has been wide-scale sexual abuse, sexually inappropriate behaviour, and inappropriate exposure to adult sexual and parasocial behaviour, within the extended royal family. Starting with Mountbatten, it could include their schools, tutors and other staff and visitors.

There’s something not right with this family and not right with the culture that produces them and their peculiar friendships and friendship circles. Their inability to close down friendships with known child abusers, and their ability to turn a blind eye, are really bloody strange - like they find it normal or even to be sympathised with. This goes way beyond ‘running with a fast set’ and being a bit ‘fruity’. These people have warped values. The royal family can’t live like this any more in an age of social media, especially when the Head of State also is the head of the Church of England.

Yes, I thought that was dreadful.

Amazing ! You are able to tell what a complete stranger has or hasn’t seen !

I said similar to this yesterday but my goodness you put it so much better than me.

They are a peculiar dysfunctional family and that's an understatement. I have never known a family who attracted so many sex offender, paedophiles and dodgy characters and the complete inability of anyone within the family to see through these awful people. And when they do, they just carry on with them!

Agree entirely.

I simply can't see how such a move can be resisted for much longer in the light of the appalling allegations against Mandelson who at the moment seems to be a useful deflector.

How much sensitive information did MW become privy to?