Andrew - continuing his effort to end the Monarchy

[TheHaplessWit]

Another new story on Andrew today. Photo's have emerged showing that on Epstein's desk, there were emails regarding Epstein paying debts owed by Andrew/Sarah to staff:

https://people.com/epstein-had-emails-staff-ex-prince-andrew-sarah-ferguson-new-photos-show-11880419

Why on Earth was a Prince of England having his staff paid by a sex trafficker?
Doesn't seem "too honourable" to me.

God almighty. Surely that must require some sort of police investigation??

I don't see any evidence for what you are alleging ...

You surely can't mean the RF's years of enabling paedophiles, @MrsLeonFarrell, so I'm thinking you must mean that there's no actual evidence that Sophie and Camilla are only interested in their charities for PR purposes?

In which case I'd agree, which is why I wrote that I wouldn't want.to assume they're sincere rather than stating they're definitely not

I think we must be wary though of sliding into the ‘Rules of Misogyny’, notably Rule 1: ‘Women are responsible for what men do’.

Jesus ! Call the fucking cops someone please

There’s a lot of information in Entitled about AMW’s relationship with the Rowland family, David and his son Jonathan, men who are described as having a chequered business history.

It’s too complex to summarise easily but it involves a deal in 2010 involving China National Overseas Oil Corporation and BG Group, the British multinational oil and gas company, and a visit for a high level meeting in China by AMW listed in the Court Circular.

Lownie describes how, after the meeting, Amanda Thirsk, AMW’s assistant , allegedly passed a Foreign Office diplomatic cable, meant for government officials only, detailing AMW’s one-to-one conversation with senior Chinese politicians. to Jonathan Rowland, for whom the visit forged potentially important business relationships.

Then in 2011 David Rowland paid for a jet that flew AMW to Libya to meet Colonel Gaddafi. AMW associated with a son of Gaddafi according to other parts of the book, and also associated with Tarek Kalituni, a convicted gun smuggler, who was associated with the Gaddafi family, and a close associate of the regime, and who bought AMW a holiday etc.

And so it goes on… .

I didn’t know anything about this! Crikey!

Thanks for the link CathyorClaire

I absolute refuse to believe that senior members of the RF were unaware of what he was doing during his years as TE.

They can’t have been unaware that the FBI sent a file about AMW’s activities to the Met Police in 2022 either!

I agree.

I can see the press leaving them alone but only because they are spectacularly dull and retiring. I doubt they'll ever be found falling out of nightclubs at 4am.

I recall seeing a documentary about him (sorry, can't remember where or the title) and his years as a trade envoy. The senior civil servants who were aware of his many shortcomings in the role understood it was more than their careers were worth to make any kind of official complaint. The late Queen would not countenance criticism of him, apparently.

This in today’s Sunday Times is staggering.

Link and archive link:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-secretary-andrew-epstein-files-8nfjgcw2x

https://archive.ph/MqYQC

King’s aide ran royal policing when officers stayed with Epstein

Bodyguards for Andrew spent more than a week at Epstein’s New York townhouse after his conviction

I may be misremembering this , but I think I read in Lownie's book or possibly elsewhere that the problem with the TE role for PA was that being part of the WRF (at the time) his line of accountability was "fuzzy" (my word) So I take that as he wasn't properly accountable to Govt and there wasn't a clear path to BP etc. I on't know if I am remembering that correctly , but I can see how he managed to slip between two stools if it was the case. It sounds to me like it was an ill thought out setup which gave rise to problems.

Or maybe a carefully crafted setup, to deliberately avoid scrutiny and muddle accountability

Possibly . But sometimes attribute to cock up what could otherwise be conspiracy. I'm not saying you're wrong , but I think it could equally have been ill thought out. If his TE role is investigated (which I hope it may be ) then maybe we will know. I think certainly a lesson is that this kind of role can't happen again without very very clear lines of reporting and very clear and defined responsibilities and accountability.

E first job was through his gf dad in banking. His first big client was Adanan Khashoggi. Mike Benz podcast 3 hours makes allegations of money laundering, being a fixer, collecting those who are useful, connections to CIA if I understood it correctly. The reason CIA didn't curtail his activities, he was useful to them, he could put people together. It was one giant Ponzi scheme of influence and favours leveraged by the parties. He sold secrets. It was a hard listen and so detailed I kept zoning out.
It was reported he left $100 milion to his last gf.
Times article today about Maxwell independent wealth through secret trusts set up by her father, behind pay wall so I didn't read it. So the assumption she needed E to support her seem unlikely now. I hope the police/hmrc investigate it as Maxwell striped the corporation pensions to pay that, the workers lost their life savings.
All these people were getting something out of their relationship with him, money, sex, introductions, completely transactional. Only the very simple would believe they were actually friends (AMBW & SF) they were being used and purchased very cheaply.

In order for anything like this to work again, and in order for there to be very clear lines of reporting, we need to first completely get rid of the entire culture of deference around the RF, particularly from the Royal household, the Met Police and, the government'. If TLQ couldn't be trusted to put her job of Head of State first when it came to State security and diplomatic matters, in order to protect her son, she should not have been Head of State. But even worse, the people surrounding her should have held her properly to account. She should not have been allowed to refuse to listen to complaints about her son. She should not have been able to get away with threatening to destroy peoples careers if they raised concerns about Andrew. She should have told him not to use Royal trips, paid for by the taxpayer to go on golfing holidays and use prostitutes. She got away with it because she knew her household staff would go to any lengths to protect the Monarchy, the police would 'lose' documents, notebooks and be remarkably forgetful when it came to pretty important details and Parliament would simply refuse to discuss it. Hopefully all of them have realised from this debacle that its the cover up that gets you. It would benefit all of them to be forced to behave properly for fear of investigation and proper scrutiny. But for that we would need people to have integrity in public office. They seem to be in very short supply.

As we can see from the files, he photographed everything. So I suspect a lot of blackmail of wealthy individuals was going on. Then that money was lent to people like SF, and possibly Mandleson. I think his main skill was recognising the flaws in these people and exploiting them to the fullest extent.

If the children of the Monarchs daughters can do 'ordinary' jobs then the children of sons can too. The only difference is that the children of sons have the Prince/ Princess title. That should be removed from anyone but the children of the heir. Obviously their jobs are never going to be truly 'ordinary' but Zara and Peter Phillips work and the press only follow Zara around when she wants them to (trips to Australia etc). Princess Margarets children did jobs.

I said ages ago think should be monarch and heir only that have the tiltles. Strip the lot once the older relatives have died. No more prince princess just William and George. No Prince Louis, Princess Charlotte or E& B. The lot goes. Streamline.

It is hard to believe that these powerful/influential people were so dumb as to be photographed, were they drunk or high? AMBW actually smiling for the camera!!!I expect lots were from strategically placed secret cameras but not all. Even knowing this those people returned repeatedly to the scene of their crimes, absolute gluttons.
My mantra is dont be seen doing anything that you wouldnt want known certainly dont be photographed doing it!

This is shocking, it really is

No wonder the Met say nothing to investigate here, move on. I did know that Andrew used to go against what his Personal Protection Officers say but they honestly sound complicit. Because that appears not to be true and they were happy to stay at Epstein's New York property. What were they doing whilst Andrew was partying and mixing with young girls? And they stayed there for a week! We pay for this, it's unbelievable

No wonder the Palace aren't doing anything, current Lord Steward to the royal household is in the thick of it. QE2s 'favourite policeman' FFS and now a hereditary peer and Earl a now personal secretary to Charles. What a surprise. It's a massive cover up.

And why isn't Amanda Thirsk, Andrew's private secretary, being investigated too? And why was Julian Phillips. one of Andrew's Protection Officers appointed a Member of the Royal Victorian Order in 2023 other than buying his silence?y

This is absolutely right and just sums it all up. QE2 has a lot to answer for, and it just gets worse and worse

We are getting near the end of this thread and I do hope we can have a Part 2.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I'd say everything is in the table JE was under 24hr surveillance the guards didn't see was it they fell asleep? They take us for fools.