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The royal family

Andrew to lose Duke of York title (part 2)

332 replies

elprup · 19/10/2025 14:01

I thought I’d start a new thread as the previous one is full!

Here’s the first thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/5429027-andrew-to-lose-duke-of-york-title?page=1

OP posts:
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7
Middlemarch123 · 21/10/2025 09:50

This morning’s Times cartoon is funny, showing a very proud Andrew being awarded a new title, “Order of the Gutter “!

jumpingthehighjump · 21/10/2025 10:53

Buckingham Palace has for many years said it does not represent Andrew. But, while having kept a low public profile since the disastrous Newsnight interview in 2019, he was still invited to Sandringham for Christmas, walking to church with his siblings. He was prominent during his mother Queen Elizabeth’s funeral, taking part in the vigil at her lying in state and permitted to wear military uniform though he had been previously stripped of his military titles.

He attended his brother’s coronation wearing full Order of the Garter robes and regalia

This is taken from a news article this morning.
This is what makes me so angry. Surely surely the PR people, the aides, the courtiers have enough brains to work out that this sort of exposure of Andrew should not have happened.
I have absolutely no sympathy with how this is going down. The Palace don't seem to have a clue.

AtIusvue · 21/10/2025 11:01

From the article:

‘SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn MP said Westminster parties "remain stubbornly slow" in acting against the prince.
"Prince Andrew's titles can only be removed by an act of parliament – therefore this SNP motion is a way to pile pressure on the UK Labour government to bring forward that legislation immediately," he said.
"The only real question is, what Keir Starmer's government is waiting for? The public knows this is the right thing to do, and even more importantly the victims at the heart of the Epstein scandal know that it's the right thing to do. It needs to be done without any further excuses and any further delay."’

AtIusvue · 21/10/2025 11:05

KC needs to tell the government, that yes, he supports this.

Let’s get the ball rolling! Andy is done.

The longer the RF sit on their hands, the higher the chance the scandal brings them all down.

bluegreygreen · 21/10/2025 12:03

The government (and parliament more generally) is slow to act because Prince Andrew provides a useful distraction.

While the headlines are about the obnoxious (though not illegal) behaviour of a prince, they are not about any of the much more powerful political, business or financial men involved with Epstein.

If half the indignation about Andrew was directed towards insisting the government reveal who else was on the lists or visiting Epstein's island, we might uncover much more important criminal financial and intelligence deals. I don't for one second believe that the main story here is sexual misdemeanours; that was Epstein's 'kompromat', not the important stuff.

I think KC3 has been too slow in dealing with this, from the perspective of managing the reputation of the monarchy, but I think we are being directed away from the real problem, which is neither Andrew nor the monarchy.

jumpingthehighjump · 21/10/2025 12:05

We are only getting all this information because of the drip drip from the US and the Epstein files. Our government cannot find out any more than what is being revealed

bluegreygreen · 21/10/2025 12:20

Our government cannot find out any more than what is being revealed

Governments never have private communications that are not made known to the public?

Governments don't have intelligence agencies?

Governments (made up of politicians, linked to powerful business men) might not have links to people who were in certain places at certain times? I'm not limiting this to one particular party, by the way.

Tiredofbullsit · 21/10/2025 12:27

binkie163 · 21/10/2025 07:37

Amy Wallace author of guiffre book on BBC at moment saying Virginia wanted all the men involved held to account, why have none of them been named in her book?

I find this increasingly frustrating! Who are all these “scores” of men?

And actually why are we giving full credibility to Guiffre? A lot of it could be lies? She backed down on Dershowitz (sp ?) when she was challenged! If she misremembered that, what else might she be ‘mistaken’ about? I mean, why are there no other witnesses? Where were Andrew’s PPOs?

jumpingthehighjump · 21/10/2025 12:44

bluegreygreen · 21/10/2025 12:20

Our government cannot find out any more than what is being revealed

Governments never have private communications that are not made known to the public?

Governments don't have intelligence agencies?

Governments (made up of politicians, linked to powerful business men) might not have links to people who were in certain places at certain times? I'm not limiting this to one particular party, by the way.

But there is a huge outcry about releasing the Epstein files in the US.
We are not going to be able to get anything more than they have released

bluegreygreen · 21/10/2025 13:01

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.

My point is that a government, of whatever colour, has other sources of information than the public does. It does not always depend on what is 'released' or not to the public.

That is especially true in a situation where there may be individuals close to the government who may be affected by that information.

TightlyLacedCorset · 21/10/2025 13:14

Tiredofbullsit · 21/10/2025 12:27

I find this increasingly frustrating! Who are all these “scores” of men?

And actually why are we giving full credibility to Guiffre? A lot of it could be lies? She backed down on Dershowitz (sp ?) when she was challenged! If she misremembered that, what else might she be ‘mistaken’ about? I mean, why are there no other witnesses? Where were Andrew’s PPOs?

There is speculation and rumours - well it is widely discussed in the US at least, nothing much predictably being mentioned here in the UK - that Epstein and Ghislaine were bankrolled by certain foreign countries and ran a honey trap operation on behalf of either/or/both the CIA and Mossad or even another foreign intelligence service. One questions why our Met police kept repeatedly dropping investigations.

The implications being mentioning American names was dicing with death. Andrew was low hanging fruit, less directly protected. Ex Prime Ministers? Extremely risky. That's why the other victims are afraid to mention them too.

And one can read between the lines. Didn't Giuffre say that she may have been mistaken regarding Dershowitz? You could look upon that as coded way of saying: I'm telling the truth, but feel forced to withdraw these accusations.

Virginia had more to lose than her life. She had children. She couldn't go full scorched earth. Doubtless she was depending on us calling our politicians to account to get the rest of the details (I mean the FBI must know a lot. MI5 too. I find it incredible that Andrew was not warned about whom he was associating with). But corruption has made that impossible. We cannot even get our own RF to do the bare minimum and get Andrew out of his mansion that he pays no rent on fgs, and our politicians are handwringing about it being so so hard to force the RF to do anything.

In the US the President has transferred Ghislaine to a hotel prison.

It should never have on her shoulders to reveal everything. She did a hell of a lot in bringing our attention to a huge international child trafficking sex ring by powerful men.

One brave woman. Some would say stupid , and she should have continued living her life downunder in peace. I hope she is sufficiently honoured one day. She has paid a huge price and so have her children. I 60% accept she killed herself. There is a 40% question mark to me over her death. She seemed erratic, anxious and scared during her last weeks.

jumpingthehighjump · 21/10/2025 13:16

Of course there may be Intel but reading a lot of American politics I doubt very much anything would be released when it's not happening in the u.s.

BemusedAmerican · 21/10/2025 13:26

TightlyLacedCorset · 21/10/2025 13:14

There is speculation and rumours - well it is widely discussed in the US at least, nothing much predictably being mentioned here in the UK - that Epstein and Ghislaine were bankrolled by certain foreign countries and ran a honey trap operation on behalf of either/or/both the CIA and Mossad or even another foreign intelligence service. One questions why our Met police kept repeatedly dropping investigations.

The implications being mentioning American names was dicing with death. Andrew was low hanging fruit, less directly protected. Ex Prime Ministers? Extremely risky. That's why the other victims are afraid to mention them too.

And one can read between the lines. Didn't Giuffre say that she may have been mistaken regarding Dershowitz? You could look upon that as coded way of saying: I'm telling the truth, but feel forced to withdraw these accusations.

Virginia had more to lose than her life. She had children. She couldn't go full scorched earth. Doubtless she was depending on us calling our politicians to account to get the rest of the details (I mean the FBI must know a lot. MI5 too. I find it incredible that Andrew was not warned about whom he was associating with). But corruption has made that impossible. We cannot even get our own RF to do the bare minimum and get Andrew out of his mansion that he pays no rent on fgs, and our politicians are handwringing about it being so so hard to force the RF to do anything.

In the US the President has transferred Ghislaine to a hotel prison.

It should never have on her shoulders to reveal everything. She did a hell of a lot in bringing our attention to a huge international child trafficking sex ring by powerful men.

One brave woman. Some would say stupid , and she should have continued living her life downunder in peace. I hope she is sufficiently honoured one day. She has paid a huge price and so have her children. I 60% accept she killed herself. There is a 40% question mark to me over her death. She seemed erratic, anxious and scared during her last weeks.

I completely agree with your comments.

binkie163 · 21/10/2025 14:36

Well one thing is for sure these powerful men are not going to name themselves. I doubt they are losing any sleep over the book. I am surprised how quickly lownies book dropped off the radar with apparently no action against Andrew. It proved A&S are dodgy as feck but didn't everyone already suspect that.

Tiredofbullsit · 21/10/2025 14:47

I wonder did VG leave any notes? If I had decided to take my life, I’d have left a list! Though I suppose she would have been fearful for her family, and who would have risked their safety to publicise it?

It’s horrific. Andrew is a tiny stupid minnow here it seems. I wonder if they haven’t stripped his titles to see if this is sufficient and to give them wiggle room if anything more emerges, as in more robust sanctions? The King must have his heart in his mouth as to what else there is!

upinaballoon · 21/10/2025 14:59

This is the week when the King went to support British Jews after the attack on the synagogue, and is going, Protestantly, to say nice things to the R.C. Pope. I don't know where these things are going to figure in the headlines. Maybe he hasn't too much time to worry about the Andrew/JE/VG/Mossad for a few hours.

MrsLeonFarrell · 21/10/2025 15:14

From the fact that the press isn't dropping this i feel there is a small chance the government might actually remove the titles.

CrimsonStoat · 21/10/2025 15:16

I read earlier today (and now I can't find it) that Andrew only pays a peppercorn rent on his house.

If this is true, it negates what was said a while ago about KCIII trying to get him out by removing any allowances so he couldn't afford it.

However, if he is only obliged to pay a peppercorn rent 'on demand' (i.e. when he's asked for it), then is KCIII complicit in keeping him in this house.

So far it seems the RF have done nothing very much other than persuade Andrew to not use some titles he still holds.

I'm glad that this is finally shining some light into the lies we're told to basically shut us up and make us go away.

CrimsonStoat · 21/10/2025 15:20

Also in the Independent article:

Speaking to Sky News, business secretary Peter Kyle said: “Those are matters for His Majesty the King. The lease is with the crown estate and those are matters for the King. And I think we’ve seen in recent days, the King has acted pretty decisively when these things get on to his desk.”

I mean, the government and the monarchy appear complicit in this whole affair - and most likely in everything to do with the RF. By government I mean them all going back however long, not just this one.

TheAutumnCrow · 21/10/2025 15:23

Peter Kyle is talking shit and he knows he is.

The Crown Estate is not run by the King ffs. It has a Board. It has a Chairman, Non-Executive Directors, an CEO and Directors.

binkie163 · 21/10/2025 15:50

TheAutumnCrow · 21/10/2025 15:23

Peter Kyle is talking shit and he knows he is.

The Crown Estate is not run by the King ffs. It has a Board. It has a Chairman, Non-Executive Directors, an CEO and Directors.

Totally agree those leases change hands regularly. It seems to be A line in the sand if forced he could go scorched earth, that would be really ugly. He cannot afford the utilities and staff so someone is a paying that plus pocket money. Other than his forces pension he has no declared source of income.

JSMill · 21/10/2025 16:00

TheAutumnCrow · 21/10/2025 15:23

Peter Kyle is talking shit and he knows he is.

The Crown Estate is not run by the King ffs. It has a Board. It has a Chairman, Non-Executive Directors, an CEO and Directors.

I honestly don’t think he knows he’s talking shit. I think there’s a lot of government ministers in this government don’t have a scooby doo what they are talking about!

TheAutumnCrow · 21/10/2025 16:32

JSMill · 21/10/2025 16:00

I honestly don’t think he knows he’s talking shit. I think there’s a lot of government ministers in this government don’t have a scooby doo what they are talking about!

The responsible government minister (secretary of state) is The Chancellor of the Exchequer Rachel Reeves, so Peter Kyle’s Cabinet colleague.

Make of that what you will!

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