Andrew to lose Duke of York title (part 2)

[elprup]

I thought I’d start a new thread as the previous one is full!

Here’s the first thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/5429027-andrew-to-lose-duke-of-york-title?page=1

But as I mentioned yesterday, MrsLF, the Guardian tells us that: "Downing Street would not be drawn on the matter, with the prime minister’s official spokesperson saying the question of legislation was “a matter for the palace in the first instance”"

I'm still waiting to hear how legislation's a matter for the palace rather than parliament, or come to that why they plan to be "guided by the RF" on the issue of removing titles, but in light of all this the prospects of the government acting don't look terribly good to me

I agree it doesn't look good but I think there is a possibility the government might be ashamed into it. I don't know though Andrew Lownie is on again today and I feel he is in danger of ruining the good work he did with his book.

Quite, TheAutumnCrow - except it seems to be turning into yet another example of the estate's status changing according to what suits

Had to smile over your point about Reeves and Kyle being cabinet colleagues though ... guess we may need another story of "I wrote you a memo" / "I didn't see it" to cover that one

Edited to add we can only hope you're right about the government being shamed into acting, @MrsLeonFarrell, except that shame doesn't seem to feature in their actions - and particularly not if there's the slightest chance of any of them being involved in this

I’m not defending Andrew here. I think he should lose all privileges but I find it strange that he and Ghislaine Maxwell are the only ones of Epsteins clients that have been publicly outed and faced the consequences. Both brits. What about all the US elites who attended these parties. Why haven’t they faced justice. We hear about the allegations against them and all the women who were abused but nothing’s happened. Why has no-one leaked the Epstein files. There must be thousands of media outlets globally who would pay fortunes for a copy.

Why has no-one leaked the Epstein files

Because Pam Bondi the US Attorney General refuses to release them despite Trump making an election promise to release them

Maxwell was tried and found guilty and sentenced to 19 years. She wasn't Epstein's client, she actively recruited young girls and exploited them, on top of sexually abusing them herself.

Epstein died in prison

Andrew has never even been questioned by police that we know of

While your point above the lack of scrutiny for other girl abusers stands, it's just not correct to say that both Maxwell and Andrew have "faced the consequences". Their situations don't compare

Interesting. Do you know why?

I mean, I know the judiciary has to be independent of the President but what reason has the AG given?

That’s interesting I thought it would be Trump withholding them to protect himself and his pals.

Not that long Boris Johnson said the RF is above reproach. So nothing done by that Party. And the other parties will be the same. The Monarchy is an institution and nobody wants to wreck it.

Yes it doesn't get repeated enough that Virginia Giuffre was "recruited" at Maralago

Yes that’s why I thought Trump was suppressing its release. All v murky.

Trump is mentioned in the book - it says Virginia was introduced to him briefly whilst working at Mar-a-Lago and he couldn’t have been nicer!

Hmmm. No grabbing by the pussy at all?

There are rumours that Trump isn't suppressing the release of the files because he is worried about himself, but because there are some other explosive implications regarding others. He is apparently protecting those others.

Donors is the only thing I can come up with that would make any sense in that regard.

But there's lots of rumours of all sorts of things. I'm starting to wonder if the files actually contain anything and are not perhaps a huge diversion tactic. But from what I cannot imagine.

He is apparently protecting those others.

This doesn't sound like the Donald we know lol

She says she doesn't have any files despite saying at the beginning of the Presidency, they were sat on her desk. They are not being released because Trump is in them big time and he is breaking every rule in the book and trying to break anyone who goes against him.
One good thing, his MAGA base are furious with him and it seems like it's not going away.
PoshUns it is Trump withholding them by forcing the awful AG not to release them

@jumpingthehighjump that was my original thought!

Thanks jumping and Tightly.

Both these reasons sound plausible - and I can imagine Trump is protecting other very powerful people as well as himself. I’m not up to speed with US politics- but surely the AG is supposed to be independent of Trump. Do we assume pressure has been applied, or that the evidence has disappeared?

Pam Bondi is awful, having seen her interviewed in the Oversight Committee, she was just hurling insults at anyone who asked her a question. She obviously doesn't understand the word 'oversight'. She is a Trumper through and through and will do whatever he says, so I don't think he needs to apply pressure.

Newscast talked about the book this week. At no point did anyone mention the lack of other names. The longer this goes on the more peculiar I am finding it that only Andrew is being mentioned.

And just to add: the responsible minister, the chancellor of the exchequer, in 2003 when Andrew’s ‘watertight lease’ and cushty deal was agreed with the Crown Estate on Royal Lodge, was Gordon Brown.

It’s about time the government (of all stripes) stopped pretending that the Crown Estate is the private property of the King, and made it clear that the profits go to the Treasury.

(On his accession, the King formally surrendered the hereditary revenues to the government, as each Monarch has done since 1760.)

The monarch ‘holds’ the Crown Estate for the nation for the duration of their reign only. It’s a symbolic ‘holding’, like keys to medieval city used in mayor-making ceremonies - they don’t mean the King owns Winchester or Portsmouth or Norwich.

And Andrew doesn’t live on a Duchy estate. He lives on the Windsor great park estate that is the nation’s. Meg Hillier getting into the terms of his lease via her chairmanship of the public accounts select committee is a promising route if the Cabinet are playing dumb.

My point is that Andrew has been named and shamed for life and will probably end up losing titles privileges so you can’t say he hasn’t faced consequences. There are so far no criminal charges against him but his life is in tatters. Why no-one else? They weren’t the only ones complicit in this

I think this is really important. I note that most people on MN threads have dropped the 'alleged' when talking of Andrew's crimes.

Again, I am not defending Andrew. I think his behaviour has been horrendous. I am not sure if it has tipped over into criminality, and I am increasingly convinced that he is a very small player compared to the powerful men whom we are not hearing about.

Exactly - especially last sentence

“leaked” not “released”