Andrew to lose Duke of York title (part 2)

[elprup]

I thought I’d start a new thread as the previous one is full!

Here’s the first thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/5429027-andrew-to-lose-duke-of-york-title?page=1

The two of them are not comparable!

I think the alleged‘ friendship’ between Charles and Savile has been over exaggerated. Savile worked in TV and was prolific in raising money for charity. Of
course their paths crossed. I remember it! The odious man was universally revered! He always gave me the creeps, even as a child!

I get the sense that PW is more ruthless than KC. He also seems more in touch with public sentiment. His treatment of PA at the DoK’s funeral said it all really (as did PA’s utter lack of awareness in shuffling to the front and trying to engage with PW and KC). He just can’t be trusted to keep a low profile.

I also think PW is emotionally in a better place to clean things up than his father and grandmother.

He will be looking to secure his own children’s future and that will take priority over PA and even Harry if it comes to it.

Agree with the comments that the announcement should have come from the Palace and not PA.

A lots been made of VG’s book as the catalyst but I’ll not be surprised if the Chinese spy scandal packs another big punch.

The odious man was universally revered!

Actually no, @Tiredofbullsit. It came out that even at the time there were some who tried to ring a warning bell, and with the vetting around Charles - plus the much better access to info he enjoys - I'd have expected him to be warned (though not necessarily to listen)

Also you didn't mention Peter Ball, Laurens van der Post or Mountbatten.
Doubtless Charles would claim once again that he was "misled", and I do appreciate that such people target prominent people to legitimise themselves, but while to befriend one paedophile might be regarded as an accident I'm not so sure about what looks like a habit

I think that there needs to be a petition to have a discussion in Parliament to draw up letters patent to remove the title ‘Prince’. He needs to become plain Andrew Windsor and he should not be treated with respect or courtesy but he should be treated as he has treated the girl (seemingly)

How can anyone refer to him as a Prince and people certainly should not bow to him etc The title
’Prince’ suggests chivalry etc and there seems to be none of that in display.

He needs to be reduced to a state of humility.

Charles doesn't need an act of parliament to remove the title 'Prince' from Andrew. He can just make an 'executive order' using letters patent.

Daily Beast article by Tom Sykes. Interesting if true.

https://archive.ph/FFdyZ

"One ally of William’s told the Daily Beast: “On Wednesday, the king’s office was saying that removing the dukedom would be a completely lame and ineffectual gesture unless you took away the prince title as well. On Friday, it’s suddenly the other way round, and persuading him to drop the duke title, without even taking it away, is being held up as a triumph of the king’s steely will. His operation is a mess.”"

If this is true the "ally" has a point

It strikes me, though, that there's a danger in all these expectations about what William will do, in that if he doesn't do them it could be painted as yet another failure - which may be true, but wouldn't exactly reflect well on his reign

I don't think we'll have that long to wait, certainly a lot less than another twenty years.

On the previous thread I had stated that I believe that William will strip Andrew, Beatrice, Eugenie, Harry, Archie and Lili of the prince/princess titles and it will be reserved for working royals etc.

Well it looks like his side are briefing the same thing . The source is the Daily Beast, which is seen as a high end tabloid. Its editor is British and I’m guessing they have some connections to Williams camp.

It’s the full the full shebang- Dukedoms, HRHs, Princely titles!!

https://archive.ph/FFdyZ

‘Friends of Prince William tell the Daily Beast that William plans sweeping reforms when he becomes king, using special executive orders to remove princely titles from all non-working royals.
As king, William will strip Prince Andrew and all other non-working royals of their honorific “HRHs” and princely titles, friends and allies of the prince told the Daily Beast.
Earlier this week, Andrew was “encouraged” to give up his title of Duke of York following revelations about his friendship with convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. He remains a prince, however, because the title is protected by law.
William plans to undo that protection. The dramatic change will be effected by an executive royal order known as “letters patent,” to be ratified by Parliament in the early weeks of the reign of King William V. It will remove princely titles from Beatrice, Eugenie, Harry, Archie, and Lilibet. The children of Prince Edward and Princess Anne have never used princely titles.
Father and son, Prince William and Prince George, attended Wimbledon this year. William is said to discourage the use of formal titles around his children.
Meghan and Harry will also see their dukedoms and HRHs formally revoked by the new king, the source said. Meghan continues to use her HRH, despite being ordered not to do so by the late Queen Elizabeth II.
A source said William’s own children may have their titles informally “parked” until they become adults and can decide for themselves if they want to be full-time working royals or lead lives as private citizens. The source said they are never addressed as “prince” or “princess” by their parents, teachers, staff, or family.
Prince Andrew and Prince William take a moment to reflect at the funeral for the Duchess of Kent, on Sept. 16, 2025. Samir Hussein/WireImage/Getty Images
William is understood to have lobbied hard for Andrew to have his title of prince removed and to be dissatisfied with the settlement announced Friday, under which Andrew will stop using his “Duke of York” title while still being referred to as Prince Andrew.
Just this week, the king’s own aides were briefing the media that it was not worth removing the dukedom, as “prince” sounded grander than “duke” anyway.
One ally of William’s told the Daily Beast: “On Wednesday, the king’s office was saying that removing the dukedom would be a completely lame and ineffectual gesture unless you took away the prince title as well. On Friday, it’s suddenly the other way round, and persuading him to drop the duke title, without even taking it away, is being held up as a triumph of the king’s steely will. His operation is a mess.”
Another friend of William’s, who told the Daily Beast about the plan to remove a huge swath of princely titles, said, “It should have been done by Charles this week, but William knows he doesn’t have the strength because of his illness. William is understanding of his father’s situation. William won’t be afraid to take the next step.”

Sorry!!!!!!

I never seen your post!

William will not change anything that will affect his children and those of you who think that he will are in for an unpleasant surprise. They only care about themselves and the only thing he will change is to make sure he and his wife do even less “work” than they are doing at the moment.

An unpleasant surprise?

Sure 👍

👍🏼 right back at you.

Oooh.

I’ve been reflecting on all the steps the late QE2 and KC3 haven’t taken since all this kicked off. Even now, Charles has let Andrew dictate what happens.

Well QE2 was very old, frail and like most mothers couldn’t believe her favourite baby boy could possibly be guilty.

KC3 said from the start he was going to strip Andrew of his titles. He had stripped him of all his honorary and military ones right after his coronation. The removal of “Prince” which is a title gained by birth, not from the monarch is more complicated to get stripped. Parliament has to do it. KC3 can’t do it.

At any rate, the thread title is misleading. Andrew hasn’t lost his prince title like oops where did I put it or ooops I forgot to pay the royal family membership fee. He has voluntarily abdicated the title under threat of Parliament stripping it.

On the previous thread I had stated that I believe that William will strip Andrew, Beatrice, Eugenie, Harry, Archie and Lili of the prince/princess titles and it will be reserved for working royals etc.

William can’t do it. Only Parliament can strip the titles of Prince/Princess that the person gains by birth. The only Prince we have had that was conveyed the title of Prince by a monarch was Prince Phillip. He had to abdicate his Prince of Greece and Denmark title to marry QE2, she then gave him the Duke of Edinburgh title. Later on when precedence meant he had to follow his own children into official events, QE2 elevated him to a Prince of England so he could walk in directly after her.

Rule is though, if you’re born an English Prince/Princess then only Parliament can strip the title.

Indeed. I am not sure parliament would want to do it anyway, it could look spiteful in the case of everybody who isn't Andrew. The best thing William could do is tighten up the existing Letters Patent to make sure we don't get a repeat a few decades in the future. I find William's current (by proxy) virtue signalling rather unattractive and a bit dishonest. None of the current non working royals are going to be passing any HRHs on to future generations anyway.

It is harder to be tough on your own child than on your sibling. So the Queen ducked away and left it to Charles. Just as Charles will duck away from Harry and leave it to William.

Yes he can do it when he's King. He can issue letters patent outlining the criteria for being a Prince or Princess and having the HRH. King George V did it in 1917 and King Charles III could do it now.

It’s not impossible to work with the government to get it through (in terms of Dukedoms) . It just doesn’t look great- but if it's part of a package of reforms under William, it might be seen differently- rather than just to get rid of slimy Andrew.
There is also a bill right now being put forward by a labour MP to make it easier to remove Dukedoms.
Additionally, when William is King, a Reform government could be in place, in which case I see no obstacle in any bill passing.

In terms of the Prince title- that is in the hands of the monarch. Issued by letters patent- it would be ratified by parliament that’s all. It’s not obstacle at all.

QE2 was very old, frail and like most mothers couldn’t believe her favourite baby boy could possibly be guilty

But the late Queen wasn't always old and frail, @SpiritAdder, and the problems with Andrew go back decades, giving plenty of opportunities to act if the will had been there

And as a PP mentioned isn't it the Dukedom - a peerage title - parliament would have to be involved in removing, whereas "Prince" could be stripped via Letters Patent from Charles?

Re William I think people forget he has a relationship with his children ?
To go hard line on Andrew risks falling out with his long suffering children

At any rate, the thread title is misleading. Andrew hasn’t lost his prince title like oops where did I put it or ooops I forgot to pay the royal family membership fee.

I think you have a narrow interpretation of the world “lost”. From the dictionary:

verb
”Be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something).

Sounds like a pretty fair description of Andrew’s situation to me!

Who are the long suffering children? I'm not sure from your post, do you mean William's or Andrew's ?

Possibly, but we don’t know what Beatrice and Eugenie think of their dad’s situation. Perhaps they’d be understanding of William taking a hard line - or perhaps not. Who knows.