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The royal family

Harry and RAVEC #2

1000 replies

Baital · 18/04/2025 15:37

To continue...

OP posts:
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17
RandyRedHumpback · 19/04/2025 01:04

Thanks @BemusedAmerican for that link to the NYP and the heads up on the Reddit threads. It's somewhat mind-blowing to think that a forgery or fit up letter may have been entered into evidence in court by the English barrister of a UK prince.

babymamalove · 19/04/2025 01:57

Sorry can someone who has gone through the details of the case clarify for me - does he want police protection solely when he visits the UK or also when he’s in the US/abroad? It’s confusing because of the IPP stuff so then qualifying him for protection when he’s abroad too.

Harassedevictee · 19/04/2025 03:32

babymamalove · 19/04/2025 01:57

Sorry can someone who has gone through the details of the case clarify for me - does he want police protection solely when he visits the UK or also when he’s in the US/abroad? It’s confusing because of the IPP stuff so then qualifying him for protection when he’s abroad too.

I am happy to be corrected as far as I know that information is not in the public domain.

The case is about the process RAVEC followed or didn’t follow.

Baital · 19/04/2025 05:43

From what I understand:

He doesn't have IPP status.

The RAVEC decision is that he will get the security he needs (based on the current risk) while in the UK, provided he gives sufficient notice of his visit.

The case is about how RAVEC came to its decision to provide security on a case by case basis, rather than automatically allocate 24/7 armed protection.

Harry believes he should automatically have 24/7 armed protection while in the UK, as he did prior to leaving.

OP posts:
MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 06:45

IAmATorturedPoet · 18/04/2025 20:37

@smilesy I think this is the one.

archive.ph/3ehwH

This quote shows who Harry is, completely self involved. How can this case be more important than calling the tabloids to account? Because at heart everything he does is about himself.

In a sign of how important he considers the case to be, he suggested it was even more significant than a legal crusade against the tabloid press, which he had previously described as his “life’s work”. He said: “This one always mattered the most.”

SlagPit · 19/04/2025 07:12

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 18/04/2025 16:24

Can you imagine if the Duke of Windsor had done this? Abdicated but then launched on a series of legal actions around wanting Met police close protection, all the time whinging he “inherited the risk”?

I think the parallels between Harry and the DOW are striking. Both flounced off claiming their lives were being made unbearable by their awful families and then clung desperately to the status and trappings those families afforded them. Neither could function well in the real world.

SlagPit · 19/04/2025 07:13

I can’t help but wonder now if Harry’s inclusion of his Taliban kill count in Spare was deliberate to trigger a threatening response in order to support his case that he needs more security.

I definitely think there's a strong argument for that view.

SlagPit · 19/04/2025 07:14

Enrichetta · 18/04/2025 20:44

Harry the duke's perception of threats to his person is largely borne of a hugely inflated sense of his own importance.

I'm sure he could live a quiet life if he so chose.

Of course he could, and I think he might want to. The trouble is that his wife doesn't. She wants to be an A-lister, somewhere between Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie.

Lazycatsitsonthemat · 19/04/2025 07:17

MrsLeonFarrell · 18/04/2025 15:43

I'm absolutely sure that if Harry and/or his family was planning to visit, and the security services had evidence of a credible threat, that he would be given as much security as he needed to keep him safe. I have no idea why this isn't good enough for him.

I really think it’s not good enough for Meghan and that’s where the issue lies. She’s using it as an excuse to get one over on the RF and avoid visiting her in laws ever again. He’s doing it because she is telling him the kids can’t go to the UK.

Lazycatsitsonthemat · 19/04/2025 07:21

SlagPit · 19/04/2025 07:13

I can’t help but wonder now if Harry’s inclusion of his Taliban kill count in Spare was deliberate to trigger a threatening response in order to support his case that he needs more security.

I definitely think there's a strong argument for that view.

This is what I think. I also think his visits to dodgy places in Africa and to the Ukraine are doing the same thing.

MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 07:22

Lazycatsitsonthemat · 19/04/2025 07:17

I really think it’s not good enough for Meghan and that’s where the issue lies. She’s using it as an excuse to get one over on the RF and avoid visiting her in laws ever again. He’s doing it because she is telling him the kids can’t go to the UK.

I don't think there is evidence his demands about security are anything to do with Meghan, it is Harry's paranoia and entitlement on full display.

Lazycatsitsonthemat · 19/04/2025 07:22

MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 07:22

I don't think there is evidence his demands about security are anything to do with Meghan, it is Harry's paranoia and entitlement on full display.

That too of course.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/04/2025 08:46

MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 06:45

This quote shows who Harry is, completely self involved. How can this case be more important than calling the tabloids to account? Because at heart everything he does is about himself.

In a sign of how important he considers the case to be, he suggested it was even more significant than a legal crusade against the tabloid press, which he had previously described as his “life’s work”. He said: “This one always mattered the most.”

It hardly seems a surprise though, MrsLF; like a spoiled child what's REALLY important changes with what he wants in any given moment, and anyone who fails to deliver the latest demand isn't being faaaiiirrr, "hates him" and all the rest

And if he was to get the security he wants he'd then have another problem, if (as expected) Meghan still refused to let the kids ccome to the UK
It would be interesting to see who he'd blame then ...

NewAgeNewMe · 19/04/2025 08:50

He’d blame everyone for not making Meghan welcome in the first place.

Overlooking the ‘family she never had’, the breathing of fresh air headlines, the big wedding that neither wanted, the masses that turned up to wish them well ie the spectacle for the masses, everyone and everything except his wife.

Remiss of me @Baital to say thank you for the new thread.

MaturingCheeseball · 19/04/2025 08:53

Who decides on IPP status? Any tin-pot dictator or foreign celebrity even could have this conferred upon them surely? Does IPP get decided in private, is it a RAVEC recommendation, or does Harry have to go to court again to plead for this?

What was Salman Rushdie’s status? I mention him as it could be argued that he brought trouble on himself (although free speech and all that…). I agree that Harry might have done some goading to strengthen his case although, as has been observed, totally cockeyed thinking to put your family in danger to get security against f to he danger 🤪 (Also read that Taliban think he’s a plonker rather than a serious adversary.)

MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 08:59

IPP status is governed by international agreements. Rushdie got protection but he wasn't IPP as far as i know because he doesn't have political importance.

Cornettoninja · 19/04/2025 09:03

He also suggested he was deeply unhappy with some of the evidence he had heard during the closed sittings of the court. “People would be shocked by what’s being held back,” he said, adding that his “worst fears have been confirmed by the whole legal disclosure in this case and that’s really sad”.

I reckon KC and possibly other members of the RF and/or staff haven’t supported his argument. It reads so much like his other ‘hints’ before going on to air his dirty laundry.

AuroraCake · 19/04/2025 09:12

MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 08:59

IPP status is governed by international agreements. Rushdie got protection but he wasn't IPP as far as i know because he doesn't have political importance.

He had major security in the UK for years as he had a fatwa on him. I don’t know know as I think he spends most of his time in the USA. Security around him was extreme and my understanding is the British service also protected him abroad.

Why Harry is doing this I don’t know. There must be something in the protection abroad as well. Otherwise why? Ihe may think it would mean that he has some sort of permanent protection or that other countries wil also provide him with security as a matter of rule. America will not and that is where he is 99% of the time. Time abroad is really counted in days and a few weeks.

MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 09:15

AuroraCake · 19/04/2025 09:12

He had major security in the UK for years as he had a fatwa on him. I don’t know know as I think he spends most of his time in the USA. Security around him was extreme and my understanding is the British service also protected him abroad.

Why Harry is doing this I don’t know. There must be something in the protection abroad as well. Otherwise why? Ihe may think it would mean that he has some sort of permanent protection or that other countries wil also provide him with security as a matter of rule. America will not and that is where he is 99% of the time. Time abroad is really counted in days and a few weeks.

I believe Harry is doing this mostly because he believes in a threat that doesn't exist and will not listen to reason. But I think part of it is that he simply cannot afford the security levels his paranoia and trauma responses demand.

AuroraCake · 19/04/2025 09:18

MrsLeonFarrell · 19/04/2025 09:15

I believe Harry is doing this mostly because he believes in a threat that doesn't exist and will not listen to reason. But I think part of it is that he simply cannot afford the security levels his paranoia and trauma responses demand.

Oh he wants someone else picking up the cost. Definitely. He doesn’t really need security at all to be fair. Maybe a little bit but nothing like he has.

RandyRedHumpback · 19/04/2025 09:46

The threat to Rushdie was issued in 1988/9. Before anyone had ever heard the word "fatwa" or really understood there was an issue about depicting Islam in a fictional book. And that's all Rushdie did - write a book. I would hardly call that "bringing it on himself". The threat was real - we know because 3 or 4 translators of the book were murdered around the world. Rushdie himself was stabbed in the face at a book event in New Jersey 2023 - I was a couple of miles away, and the whole thing was shocking after all these years.

Harry killed Taliban. His choice to join the army and kill people. And his choice to talk about something no other person in the army thinks it is right to talk about - killing the enemy and describing them in dehumanising terms. His and his publishers' choice, made in 2023, after everything that has gone on in the years since 1989, after Charlie Hebdo, numerous major terrorist attacks, multiple wars. He's an absolute fucking arrogant fool who definitely has brought this on himself.

The notion that RAVEC would just allow a prince of the UK, the head of state's son to end up being murdered out of some petty revenge or whatever, because he and his stupid wife decided they didn't enjoy royal life or whatever it is he is claiming, is utterly ridiculous. None of the people making the decisions want their decision making to end up in a high profile death, because it will come back on their heads and on the UK.

Harry's principle issue is that he doesn't have what his brother has. And the reason he doesn't have that is his choice to live in the US. When he comes home, he is very likely to have what his brother and other members of his family have in terms of protection during ROYAL DUTIES. What he objects to is having to give notice (30 days) to get it. He probably resents having to tell them where he will be and what he is doing so they can make a security plan. He was always used to security trailing after him like servants and watching him get on with whatever dodgy and ill-advised behaviour he was engaging in his entire life before he left. He could do what he liked, when he liked and they would always be there. He can't have that now, but that is exactly what he wants.

The judicial review is not looking at the decision made. It's not there to tell RAVEC to make a different decision and it cannot do that. The JR is there to look at the decision making process and whether the process is rational and reasonable. As long as it is rational and reasonable, an outcome that Harry perceives is unfair to him is still a valid outcome. If Harry wins, all he wins is that whatever it is that he said in the closed session should be taken into account will be taken into account in another decision making process. The outcome of that process is not likely to end up as anything radically different to the process that has kept him safe in the UK for the last 5 years since he left, since I imagine the security services know more about the risks to Harry than he does, and will have been applying a dynamic risk assessment for the last 5 years, which is why he has never come to any harm.

Not2identifying · 19/04/2025 09:48

Cornettoninja · 19/04/2025 09:03

He also suggested he was deeply unhappy with some of the evidence he had heard during the closed sittings of the court. “People would be shocked by what’s being held back,” he said, adding that his “worst fears have been confirmed by the whole legal disclosure in this case and that’s really sad”.

I reckon KC and possibly other members of the RF and/or staff haven’t supported his argument. It reads so much like his other ‘hints’ before going on to air his dirty laundry.

I think the RF would have stayed out of it but maybe he's seen minutes from meetings where the RF's representative (I think the monarch's private secretary attends) did not support his request. I think the most explosive thing would be if the late Queen wrote a letter to support Harry on the one hand but, off the record (and Harry has somehow found out), she said she didn't support it but wrote the letter to placate Harry. But I'm not sure she was a game player so...

I think Harry started his case before the Queen died so that might limit Charles's exposure and I can't imagine William stuck his nose in.

notimagain · 19/04/2025 09:51

@MrsLeonFarrell

I think part of it is that he simply cannot afford the security levels his paranoia and trauma responses demand.

Agree...according to various sources full protection 24/7/365 for the whole family will empty the trust funds/ bank accounts PDQ. I do wonder if the misguided fool really thinks he can get IPP status..

For info here is a piece covering the subject of costs etc from a very high end private security company..(don't think MM will appreciate one typo) ..

www.westminstersecurity.co.uk/close-protection/royalty-and-specialist-protection/

Not2identifying · 19/04/2025 10:05

Interesting article. It referred to Andrew as the former Duke of York!

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