Harry and RAVEC - claims he was trapped by RF

[smilesy]

Okay. So first of all thanks to everyone on the last thread for a really civilised discussion about Harry and his security. The Telegraph has an exclusive article where Harry claims that his security was removed to “trap” him in the RF. I’m really sorry but for some reason I am unable to archive Telegraph articles at the moment. Could anyone help?

He wants IPP status, because he can't fund the level of security he has longterm. He won't get it and even if he did get agreement in the UK, he can whistle under Trump.

ETA I know Meghan has her "Marie Antoinette" moments, but expecting the world for a security tab noone other than him seems to think he needs is all Harry. I now honestly think he has a psychological block about it and needs better help than he has had thus far to address it. It seems to have become an idee fixe.

Yes

No the government made it clear they would not fund long term prince charles plugged the gap for awhile but again he couldn't do that forever so they removed it they wanted freedom they got it

“The bodyguards have a fleet of cars, which must have been hired locally – all Range Rovers, Land Rovers and SUVs.

“There are 10-15 burly blokes and most of them seem to be British.

Experts have estimated the annual bill for protecting Harry and Meghan at $5 million to $11 million.

The highly-trained British members of the team – Met Police detectives who can earn up to $196,000 per year – are regularly swapping in and out from Britain.

And theses highly trained experts felt they were being used as 'skivvies' being sent on menial errands for Harry and Meghan..

Enlightening.😵

I suspect there was someone who said something like ‘if he wants Met Security officers he has to be mainly resident in the UK for that’ - which is true and would be true for any member of the royal family.

He’s interpreting that as some sort of gotcha plan to make them stay in the UK.

I said the below on the other Harry thread but it’s more relevant to this topic so copying it over -

There’s an interesting quote from a source close to Harry - pushing back in response to criticism of the Ukraine trip - which I think really gets to the heart of Harry’s security issue and why it’s obvious to most people that his court case is a fruitless exercise because he can’t see the wood for the trees.

The source says that Harry felt safe in Ukraine because the security he received there was so much more robust than that which he gets in the UK.

And that tells me he’s so caught up in his feelings about this issue that he’s not making the distinction that the reason his security was more robust in Ukraine was because he was in or at least at the edge of a war zone.

He had the security appropriate to the situation. Just like he gets in the UK. In both situations someone with intelligence knowledge has done a risk assessment and provided the security the situation called for.

But Harry isn’t able to distinguish between that - he feels safe only when he’s ‘robustly’ and obviously guarded by the highest level of security.

But RAVEC doesn’t operate on feelings and the tax payer shouldn’t be paying for just feelings.

Until Harry gets some help with understanding that issue he’s never going to be satisfied.

I really think for Harry it’s more about him being genuinely paranoid about his and his family’s safety than wanting it for his ego.

He really can’t see that he is getting the security he needs (not wants) while in the UK.

i think there’s probably a bit of nuance in interpretation, if someone told Harry that you can’t expect to leave and keep your security exactly as it is as a working royal… I guess he could interpret it as a trap or tactic to make him stay in the RF, but presumably it was a fact… presumably the current RF security arrangements are carefully organised and require the royals to follow certain roles, protocols and planning. The royals rule by the consent of the public and parliament but can’t be seen to be too decadent or taking liberties with public resources.

We all have to make decisions based on what is safe to do, there are parts of the world it is not safe to travel as a western tourist and places where women don’t run at night. And public finances are not infinite, if I went into witness protection I wouldn’t expect to be put up in a mansion. Public servants pay for their own teabags and biscuits at work.

Yes, if the Sussexes come to the uk they should be kept safe, but this can’t be on an every whim basis, if Harry wants the state to provide free security when in the UK then he may have to accept that there are some conditions attached. This will be different to the King and William since they are full time UK based and work for the state.

That's what he thinks!

It can only be a matter of time before he shoots his mouth off.

Of course it's not the bloody case!

You leave the job, you don't get to keep the perks!

I wonder what he actually wants security wise and how he thinks it will work practically.
Does he want UK protection police on stand by at all times in case he wants to pop back? That would have to be a dedicated unit.

Or maybe a unit with him at all times including his residence in Cal.?

If he's not happy to give 30 days notice of a visit ( which sees reasonable) then it must be one of the above

I absolutely agree - Harry is clearly terrible at assessing risk, and is basing his idea of safety on his perception and feelings, not on any objective evidence. He perceives himself as being safer in Nigeria, with a visible, burly security guard with a gun, than in Chelsea, London, with close protection officers. It's very obvious that he is completely unable to assess risk at the most basic common sense level. Even down to the fact that it looks, in my opinion, like he's going to talk about the private matters discussed in closed court. The fact that it was a closed court in order to protect his (and others) safety and privacy means absolutely nothing to him because he isn't bright enough to understand the consequences of his actions.

This is very much the same attitude as the idea that they could be half in half out as working royals. They didn't think it through just assumed the family and the system would bend to their whims. When they were told No then the victimhood started.
Nobody is saying they won't have security just that there can't be a permanent team on standby in case they deign to visit.

Diana really did Harry a disservice always treating him exactly the same as William; he genuinely can’t understand why he is not entitled to exactly the same security, despite their very different public roles.

At least with Charles’ generation there were 3 others (Anne, Andrew and Edward), who could see that they all didn’t get what Charles did, due to his position.

Harry has no other sibling in his position, so he genuinely seems to think he’s being hard done by with special individual spiteful treatment, when the reality is that the decision to scale down his role (and security as a by-product) should probably have been made a lot earlier than Megxit.

This all sounds increasingly bonkers.

yeah, great isn't it 😁

He's got low emotional intelligence and arrested development. I think he's about to sing like a canary again. God, he must be very hard to live with. I can't imagine Meghan is still turned on by him.

I think this is why William and Kate had 3.

He wants what William has .

Would that be the same press that didn’t even know he was attending? There has been no “leaks” since he left. Other than the ones coming from KP

I am not very clever, so don't fully understand....does Harry think that he should have 24/7 Met office protection, wherever he is in the world, despite leaving the Royal family and spending the last 5 years slagging them off? I must have the wrong end of the stick, surely? I remember news reports of their Met officers in Canada spending their time being sent to get take away coffees and do the shopping. Is this what he actually wants? For this country to spring millions for a nice polite English police officer(away from his/her family for six months at a time) to run errands for him?

I'm really confused. I thought the case was about security when Harry visits the UK on various charity junkets. (I mean, I think we all know it's really about Harry being a delusional paranoic, but I thought it was about security in the UK.)

I suspect what happened was it was pointed out to Harry that if he was no longer a working royal and lived outside the UK he would no longer get the same type of security arrangements.

H interprets this as a threat rather than a statement of truth.

I am though surprised he is again publicly making accusations towards his family. I thought he'd probably realised that hadn't gone well for him previously.

He obviously just cannot let go of his internal victim narrative and honestly believes he can convince the world of his sad life if he just keeps bleating.

It's incredibly disordered thinking.

He obviously surrounds himself with people who support his victim beliefs and has no idea how he is being perceived.

It's becoming quite tragic

I am completely bemused why H and some posters can’t see that the absolute worst case scenario for TLQ, KC, PoW and RAVEC would be for something to happen to H or his family.

A bespoke response whilst they are in the UK makes absolute sense. All it means is once RAVEC know his itinerary they plan the appropriate level of security. To be honest everyone gets bespoke security as the level changes depending on what they are doing. As pp have said Princess Anne gets it when working - that will be bespoke depending on the engagement.

For the poster who suggested if H gave 10 days notice KC or PoW would leak to the press. It’s RAVEC who need the notice so they can provide the security. Why would KC or PoW know unless he was meeting them, as that would be a security risk?

All of the RF who have security must give notice, possibly 28 days, but maybe longer, so that they can decide the level required, carry out risk assessments, plan shifts etc. Asking H to give notice means they can put the right level of security in place. Obviously in an emergency a shorter notice would be understandable. Just think when TLQ died all the security had to change not just that day but for the next few weeks. That is why they have detailed plans that they test out.

I would be interested to know if there are any occasions when H gave RAVAC notice he was visiting the UK and he felt the security provided placed him at risk - not just a feeling but actual examples.

Harry was a Captain in the British Army and an apache co-pilot who saw active service with two tours of Afghanistan, to lack the ability to risk assess would be quite shocking.

so close protection officers at his premises 24/7 ?
If so he is very deluded

I'm guessing that he wants met officers to protect him everywhere. That's why we saw the non-chase saga in USA last year