All the focus on H & M - where's the outrage against Andrew?

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Thread after thread of pulling apart Harry and Meghan. 0.1% discussing what Andrew did?

What is going on with MN?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

The title of the thread is 'where is the outrage against Andrew'. I have talked of parliamentary processes, the Monarch and family covering for him, the fact that we know very little of what he has been up to, the fact records are sealed about him. And more

To repeat, I don't know what you are expecting from posters if not to talk about him

I find the subject of this thread very refreshing, so thanks op for starting it.

I agree with Tomatotater and others that Buckingham Palace have played a blinder!
They must be laughing over the Meissen tea cups! The more stories that fill the airwaves and “news” sites about Harry and Meghan, the fewer questions are asked about Andrew and other members of the RF. They owe H & M big time for taking the heat off themselves!

And I think we Brits are incredibly complacent and gullible about what we are fed by the Palace PR machine, and what friends of the palace, and favoured journalists and broadcasters put out there. Whoo hoo; let’s all bash H & M and unquestioningly accept the narrative set by the Daily Mail and others! We know that for years now, the RF has promoted what they want us to know, and covered up what they want to hide.

We will never know for sure, but when you examine the timings of the bullying allegations against H&M, I think there is more than a hint of a pattern developing … one could almost call it strategic?

Suffice to say that I was not surprised by Dr SC using Sky News as a platform for her interview.

Interestingly, there is evidence of some rowing back in The Times today on that issue. Perhaps “someone” has overplayed their hand by aiming a spotlight at charities and their patrons? Too close to the bone perhaps?

Also, the prevailing belief on so many threads that Charles and William have never needed their images to be handled by BP PR operatives, because presumably they never lose their tempers with staff, is totally illogical! Pen-gate anyone? No, apparently it’s only Harry who “bullies” and whose image needed “handling”. And Andrew’s of course!

It’s pretty poor form imho to announce a bullying enquiry and then not publish the results! Highly convenient if you ask me!

Unlike some pps, I believe that there are still plenty of pertinent questions to be asked about Andrew and his activities. What is interesting is why we are so content to accept the company line about it all? Or.., silence?

For a start, where is Andrew’s current income coming from that enables him to live in Royal Lodge?

Why are so many files containing information about Andrew, missing from Whitehall?

Why did the Palace not know about his relationship with a dodgy Chinese spy? Presumably they have contacts with agencies who inform them about these things?

When Andrew was working as a trade ambassador, why did the Palace not hold him accountable for his inappropriate behaviour and financial activities?

It emerged via Wikileaks that the US Ambassador to Kyrgyzstan had complained about PA’s behaviour in 2010! So the Palace must have had some idea! And he was representing the UK then, so why was nothing done?

The point is that we will probably never know the answers to these questions and many more because the RF are not properly accountable to us or financially transparent.

There is complacent acceptance in the UK that the Monarchy is a benign institution that generally works for the good of its people, and is not self-serving, and that may be true in some instances. But I respectfully suggest that we need to look behind all of the “gumph” about H&M and occasionally challenge that assumption.

Leaving out KC who is ill, I would like to know why, for example, it is necessary for Sophie and Edward to live in a £30 million pound mansion in order to do fairly standard charity work? Moreover, is it appropriate that they do so while UK citizens battle with COL issues? More precisely, if their house is privately owned, who pays for its upkeep? If part of its maintenance comes from the Sovereign Grant, what percentage does? Ditto their staff? Who pays for maintenance of the grounds? There are so many smoke and mirrors surrounding these issues.

I agree with someone who said down thread that the reason we don’t know very much about these issues specific to Andrew, is that if we did, we would know far too much about the finances of other royals too!

@Itsbeenlabelledhasntit what "Daily Mail narrative"? The stuff H and M feed them?
People who criticise them do so because of their words and actions. Nothing to do with any PR machine or tabloid newspaper.
Everything from the couple themselves.
Directly. Their words and actions.
Unless you're suggesting that BP wrote Spare, the script for Oprah and the Netflix series et al?
They are a middle aged couple who have spoken in length, and in detail about their lives, and the lives of the RF. For profit
They are not teenage victims of false rumours.

Yep
There are some posters who rarely post on other threads but seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on the threads discrediting the Sussexes.
Then if a poster makes a comment which they deem pro Sussex( such as Meghan has lovely swishy hair) they accuse the poster of being obsessed. Meanwhile they have made twenty comments as opposed to the two or three made by the ‘obsessed ‘ poster.
Very strange and worrying

@Itsbeenlabelledhasntit

Your questions are so relevant and what I want to know.

As far as paying for Royal Lodge... I believe he can't travel to the ME anymore but that doesn't stop his contacts, and his daughters have been there very very regularly lately. So much so they've been called Unofficial Ambassadors in the Middle East 😱

The chinese spy furore is a massive cover up as far as I'm concerned. He says he cut contact when it was established he was a spy but I don't totally believe that. He was very instrumental in Pitch Palace and Andrew has since tried to sell his book of contacts to a Dutch company. It fell through.

When Andrew was working as a trade ambassador, why did the Palace not hold him accountable for his inappropriate behaviour and financial activities?

Because of Mummy. He said he was only answerable to the Queen. She showed 'concern' about his activities as TE along with his relationship with Epstein but she did nothing. Now records are sealed for 30/40 years so we will never know what went on, who travelled with him (there are rumours about that), where he went, how long he stayed etc.

The point is that we will probably never know the answers to these questions and many more because the RF are not properly accountable to us or financially transparent.

^^ This. That is what I mean when I say he is protected under the royal umbrella. As I said in a previous post, no one can question anything about the royal family in parliament, so they can do what they want, whilst dodging the pesky media.

one letter wrong!

Interesting post

I’m sorry you don’t seem to understand what I am saying . I think it’s been perfectly clear

I think if need a snack to read all that

Just as I’m sure you do this is a discussion forum so people can join as many or as little threads as they like.

Explain again then. I haven't a clue.

You ask why I CARE about Andrew. I have explained why. I am responding to the question 'where is the outrage against Andrew' . I have posted in answer to that q in many ways. I have touched on why I think there isn't enough outrage about him.

Don't be sorry, no need to apologise to me. So no, not clear. I think you don't understand the thread title!

Go for it. It's very interesting.

An excellent post. The royal institution is out of date and somewhere has this modernisation of it got to? Where other than sliming it down...but that hasn't had much impact.

I'd also like to know why when no engagements were being done during covid years they still continued to collect the same amount from the sovereign grant.

I'd also add now that William who has been open about not wanting to do so many engagements and we can see that, why do they still need the same amount of money and staff.

Also why is Andrew allowed to go off and monetise his connections but others told no. Why is he allowed to go damage the reputation of the rf institution and our country more and nothing be done about it.

It's interesting that senteable issue can generate 4 threads, that's almost 4000 comments but Andrew and his rexent murky trade dealings doesn't even fill one thread!

And there you have it a gaslighting personal attack. It’s always the same and so predictable. Im
not going to explain it any further. Other people have understood what I’ve said, if you don’t agree hat lies with you. Though you do seem to like a good conspiracy

There is NO personal attack. There is no gaslighting.

You have asked why I CARE about Andrew. That was your question.

I have explained again and again and again. Repeatedly. I have quoted what I have talked about on here. The reasons why I think there is not enough outrage about Andrew as per thread title (no parliamentary questions, royal family protection, records being sealed, and more)
But it seems that's not enough for you? And you don't want to explain what you mean.
I suggest we stop this conversation now, as it's going nowhere. And I'm sure we have better things to do.
Cheers!

People who criticise them do so because of their words and actions

Not always! I do not agree with all of their actions by any means but a lot of antagonism towards H & M is due to confirmation bias at this stage of proceedings. They couldn’t do right now in the eyes of the press and sm commentators and hideous royal reporters, if they threw gold bars at orphans!

Also, too many people, so-called journalists, and podcasters, are refurbishing their kitchens and installing new conservatories on the back of trashing them for a living! It’s very lucrative work! H&M should be awarded with an honour for services to the metropolitan building trade!

So many people judged them originally on a “spun” version of events, or snippets of the book or video extracts without context.

Some of their points on Oprah I found credible, but I don’t expect you to react the same way.

When you actually read Spare, it’s not half as bad as it is it is made out to be by the Daily Mail! I don’t think Harry’s objective in publishing it was all financial either , although contrary to popular belief on these threads, it smashed many existing sales records. He consistently said he put everything in it, including details about his frostbite that we would all rather not know about 😬 so then the press would then have nothing left to discover about him. He was naive in that goal of course but I think it was a genuine intention on his part.

Very interesting questions Spectre8

Funny how there was no talk of half-in, half-out when Andrew was trade ambassador, allegedly representing the UK’s business interests half of the time, and allegedly playing golf and developing personal income streams during the other half?

And, as you say, how Andrew can be found to have had at least one dodgy business contact with someone who could potentially pose a security risk to the uk, and be allowed to go free, without any comment, is extraordinary frankly. Wouldn’t an ordinary citizen at least be subject to a police enquiry in similar circumstances?

But no, it’s more important to focus criticism on the quality of Meghan’s jam-making skills!

Thanks TulipTiptoer

I wasn’t aware of Beatrice and Eugenie’s alleged frequent flyer trips to ME.😁.

I think one of them lives in Portugal!

You have reminded me about the contact book story though, which I had forgotten.

I totally agree about the Chinese spy story alleged cover up
> see my previous answer to Spectre8
> why no charges?

Ditto silence over nefarious TE activities.
I swear the RF only ever admit to two emotions! One is “concerned” and the other is “deeply saddened”. IMHO, in these particular circumstances, the appropriate emotion should have been “appalled and outraged”!

And “livid” 😁

On your final point about Parliament, it’s interesting how the monarch, who should be separate from political life, can receive advance warning about any parliamentary debates on the subject of royal finances and tax payments! But the same level of privilege is not accorded to us, British citizens, who wish to ask questions in Parliament about the monarchy!

Great post. I also want to know more about the finances and exemptions and redactions. After the Channel 4 documentary last year it's pretty obvious there's a whole industry in place keeping the monarchy unaccountable and untaxable. It's also interesting with a Labour government in place penalising the old and disabled that the monarchy finances are still untouchable.

I've asked this before, but why?
Why do parliament etc. turn a blind eye/ actively help cover up?
What's in it for them?
ditto newspapers etc.

I swear the RF only ever admit to two emotions! One is “concerned” and the other is “deeply saddened”. IMHO, in these particular circumstances, the appropriate emotion should have been “appalled and outraged”!

That made me laugh, you are so right!!

They are very good at flying under the radar when the shit hits the fan like the C4 documentary mentioned above. Uncovering how they rake the money in from the poor old NHS, RNLI, charities etc... there's a whole outcry about it, they keep their heads down for a week or two, one of them turns up somewhere worthy, and they just carry on accruing vast amounts of wealth because nothing happens. They never ever address anything.

Which is why Charles is a two times billionaire and William said to be worth at least £120M (conservative estimate) without the Duchy. How lovely to be lobbed £26M every year from the Duchy and not disclose how much tax you are paying on it! Money grows money, no more so than in the case of the royal family.

Agree wholeheartedly. I think it’s very morally dubious that the royals are given preferential tax breaks when the legislation governing PIP awards is under constant review. Especially in this current financial climate.

I hope Starmer can show a bit more courage on this issue.

Nonsense. The vicious threads about M&H have been constant for years. They’re fucking gross and I don’t understand why it’s allowed.

Yep! I would have thought that running two huge business ventures that each generate £26 million a year, very much blurs the definition between charity work and commerce! And yet that isn’t ever described as half-in,half-out? I think it’s more a case of “in” and “get in there again” 😄

I hope Keir Starmer finds the courage too, but you'd think he would have looked there first. The publication of all accounts and inheritance tax applied the same as everyone else would be a good start.

Bread and circuses for the masses. Dumb tabloid sourceless stories to distract , when the protagonists left the country over five years ago. Status quo maintained.