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The royal family

Cheese and royal gossip 2 , cheese harder

1000 replies

jeffgoldblum · 21/02/2024 23:15

A second thread!

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Turtlerussell · 24/02/2024 14:15

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 14:07

I think it's a really good channel. the presenter, Shauna, has done analysis of all the major royal books and cross references them/compares and contrasts accounts. She's also done some analysis of books on other public figures.

She did a really interesting deep dive a couple of weeks ago on where the anti-Catherine narrative originates.

Just found this review of the book from Goodreads:

This is a shockingly intimate view of Charles and Diana's marriage, told by Wendy Berry, the housekeeper of their country residence. Berry comes across as intelligent and sensible, and her anecdotes ring true. The book was published in 1995, before Diana's death, and subsequent tell-alls have confirmed the impressions given here.

Berry observed Charles and Diana at home, during the decline of their marriage, which was relatively untroubled when she was hired. From the couple's separate sleeping arrangements to their different ways of dealing with servants, Berry doesn't slant her observations. She has a bit of servant snobbery, disdaining the Christmas ornaments at Highgrove as "naff and ordinary", and passing judgment on Sarah Ferguson's baggy cotton underwear and cheap luggage.

Berry offers interesting tidbits, such as Charles still sleeps with his childhood teddy bear on his bed. He was unconcerned when his new dog peed on his bed: as Berry went to change the bedding, Charles told her to leave it and just give it a wipe! And belying Diana's picture of him as a distant, uncaring father, Berry describes him as doting and close to his sons. One of the saddest parts was when Diana would keep the boys from their father, telling Charles the boys would be eating in bed with her, while watching TV. She did this even on William's last night at home before boarding school. In another incident she kept the children for dinner in bed, and the next morning she took them away for breakfast in her bed too. Charles was very upset at being shut out like this, and tried to talk to Diana about it but she wouldn't. It's terrible to realize how Diana was repeating her own upbringing, where she was kept from her mother by her father.

Berry described how the couple dealt with their staff: "The sweet, kind-hearted, compassionate Diana is just part of a much more complicated whole. The part the public do not see is sometimes far removed from the 'Princess Act' and none too pleasant. And because she was so riddled with insecurities and inadequacies it made her a very mercurial person to deal with. Quite frankly, one never really knew where one stood with her, or how she was going to react unlike Charles, who, though extremely up and down in terms of temper tantrums, was generally straight and fair with his employees. However, when he did want changes nothing could dissuade him, and he could be intransigent and ruthless. As long as he got his own way everything ran smoothly, but nobody could honestly say that he is an easy man to live with."

Charles was more formal, though friendly. He was also more even keel (though who isn't, after all the stories we've heard about Diana.) If Charles had a childish tantrum when something didn't go as planned, he would later be embarrassed and apologize. Diana ran the gamut, from "sweet and caring" to "sarcastic and spiteful". She would treat her closest servants terribly, refusing to speak to them, or screaming at them and calling them names. One February a servant said Diana hadn't spoken to her since Christmas and she didn't know why. "Who does, half the time?" said Paul Burrell, Diana's butler and confidante.

Unlike Charles, Diana ran through servants, as no one could take the abuse for long. The children's nannies were a problem for Diana, as she needed them, yet resented their closeness to her children. One nanny was so regimented that she didn't like Diana appearing without warning, so of course she was given the sack. But later nannies who were more fun-loving were also a threat to Diana, and were let go, despite the children's attachment.

I expected Camilla to be a presence in this book, but she barely appears. Aside from a couple of lunch parties, and afternoon visits to Charles when he badly broke his arm, she wasn't at Highgrove at this time. Berry notes the evenings when Charles seems to be slipping away to see her, but there weren't as many of those as expected. Diana's affair with James Hewitt took place at Highgrove, but he was in the military so was often away. Diana's concern for him and his safety was clear to the staff.

Berry described Diana as fascinated with her own publicity. There is a terrible sense of foreboding when she describes how Diana encouraged the press to be obsessed with her. She would covertly alert the media to where she would be, then publicly claim to be "upset" about the photos. She looked through the newspapers with the servants, preening with pleasure at the flattering shots of herself and screaming with horror at the unflattering ones. She taunted Charles about how the public really preferred to see her, and she was correct. Her teasing game with the media worked to her advantage and garnered her attention and admiration, but look where it led. Remember, the book was published prior to Diana's death.

Obviously Ms. Berry took copious and detailed notes during her years working for the Wales's. More detailed about Charles and Diana than one would expect an average housekeeper to write down about her rich employers. It seems like Berry always intended to write this book. Berry graduated at a high level, and had been an English teacher, making me suspicious of her intent in taking a low paying housekeeping job. At one point Charles learns of her education level and expresses surprise that she would want the housekeeping job. He should have been more skeptical! (I'll bet he is now.) Berry claims she only decided to publish her detailed diary after seeing Princess Diana's slanted version of the story, via Andrew Morton's book. (When Berry published, the general belief was still that Diana's friends had given Morton the lowdown. It wasn't yet acknowledged the Diana herself was the source of Morton's book.) Diana's Andrew Morton revelations were really press releases, positioned and cleverly timed to move public opinion in her direction before the couple's separation. At least this author has no axe to grind, and though she betrayed the Wales's trust in publishing, she seems to have told the truth as she observed it.

Turtlerussell · 24/02/2024 14:18

Whilst I don’t see any consequence for hazza reg. his visa, he has made a mockery of their laws and procedures

LifeExperience · 24/02/2024 14:30

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 14:11

Thanks for this, @LifeExperience Can we assume that the only reason that Homeland Security is running the "Spare is unreliable" argument, is that they know full well Harry has lied on the visa application?

It certainly appears that way. I honestly don't think he will be deported. But it is another example of Harry not being able to foresee the consequences of his actions.

Maireas · 24/02/2024 14:38

...or believing that he is above the regulations that apply to others.

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 14:39

No, I don't see them deporting him either, that would be a headache diplomatically and see the government breaking up a very high profile family, potentially. So Spare ends up the sacrificial lamb. I guess Harry's made his money from it, and it's been widely derided anyway, so maybe no great loss to him in the end (although is is due out in paperback?).

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 15:00

@Turtlerussell One of the most startling things in the book is the number of times Diana deliberately kept the boys away from Charles; and also, the number of times she takes William off to bed with her to watch TV and eat dinner off a tray, while Harry is sent alone to the nursery and the nanny. It's pretty clear that she either favoured William, or was triangulating him in her ongoing battle with Charles.

Reddog1 · 24/02/2024 15:14

I think she liked to talk to William about her personal problems. She maybe preferred Harry not to be present for that reason.

Maireas · 24/02/2024 15:15

This all rather contradicts the enduring myth of St Diana the Martyr, doesn't it?

Turtlerussell · 24/02/2024 15:21

Poor William! And Harry! Explains a lot.

William sought out stability, Harry maybe sort out a similar female figure to his mother, so he could finally be ‘accepted’. That’s why we apparently sometimes seek out similar relationship dynamics isn’t it, to right the original wrong.

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 15:30

I get the very distinct impression that Harry has picked up his mother's narrative and what he thinks might have been had she lived - off to live in California with film producer, Dodi Fayed - as well as taking his vengeance on the press he believes killed her. He very much behaves like their destinies are entwined, and it's not healthy, and it's not healthy to feed it.

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 15:34

Maireas · 24/02/2024 15:15

This all rather contradicts the enduring myth of St Diana the Martyr, doesn't it?

It's interesting that it is all a contemporaneous account before her death and retrospective sainthood, from the point of view of someone on the receiving end of Diana's private face, rather than the public one. I think Diana was both a victim and a master manipulator and curator of her public image.

RoyallyRhubarb · 24/02/2024 15:52

I read that Diana used to whisk the kids from Highgrove to London at the weekend so that Charles couldn’t see them. This was one of the reasons to formalise the separation so that Charles had guaranteed time with his boys. All these stories seem to corroborate the fact that Charles did have a heart.

themessygarden · 24/02/2024 17:19

I wonder if he is worried about his visa being revoked, looks like they are sucking up to the Canadians. 😀 Hedging their bets.

"It filled our hearts to once again be surrounded by Canadian people, food and culture."

JSMill · 24/02/2024 17:33

@Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar that's quite insightful. I remember the day after the Queen died, he and Camilla met the crowds outside BP. They spontaneously started saying 'God save the King' and he looked so touched. I also noticed as he walked down the aisle in his coronation, he nodded to people and there was a modesty about him.

ajandjjmum · 24/02/2024 17:55

The general feeling towards Charles was very different in the early 90's. I was working in Newhall Street in Birmingham when he visited the old Science Museum opposite our offices. The police put up barricades and no-one was there. I went outside with four of my work colleagues, and when he arrived he sort of hesitated before coming over to us. He was most uncomfortable, and I first put out my hand - which I now know is against all protocol. I suppose as a nation our heads were being filled with the 'poor Diana, horrible Charles' narrative, which in all fairness seemed to be changing just before she died and received her sainthood! Maybe experiences like that have made him more 'thankful' for the welcome that he now receives.

Turtlerussell · 24/02/2024 20:59

I really want to read that book - it’s 50 quid for a secondhand copy - so not gonna happen! 😆

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 21:39

Watch the whole of the Vintage Read playlist on the book @Turtlerussell - she goes through it chapter by chapter, so it's a really good second best to reading it yourself.

Reddog1 · 24/02/2024 22:46

Platell has criticised William in the DM for not updating the public about his wife. It’s paywalled so I only saw the headline on Twitter/X. This means that the actual content might belie the headline, of course.

But I found it weird if it’s the case, because the DM usually supports William and disparages H&M.

Loads of nonsense articles too - stuff like Pippa’s gingham swimsuit and some lackey of Charles who’s been demoted.

What are they up to?

Maireas · 24/02/2024 22:49

No, the DM don't favour William. They do what gets the clicks. People don't understand that's what tabloids are about! Criticising William for his Cornwall project, his statement about Israel etc...that's what they do.

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstomycar · 24/02/2024 23:00

Yes, the DM are equal opportunity critics of all the royals. H&M have just given them more fodder to criticise than anyone else over the last couple of years. William making political statements was inevitably going to draw criticism. And of course the tabloids are all chomping at the bit for information about Catherine, she's the best click bait they have had since Diana.

Turtlerussell · 24/02/2024 23:05

Maireas · 24/02/2024 22:49

No, the DM don't favour William. They do what gets the clicks. People don't understand that's what tabloids are about! Criticising William for his Cornwall project, his statement about Israel etc...that's what they do.

This. The tabloids happily throw any celeb or royal under the bus. Funnily enough, they don’t eviscerate certain government policies with the same vigour.

Only a true narcissist like Harry would think he was uniquely targeted.

jeffgoldblum · 25/02/2024 10:32

Morning , to all the fromagers !!!
Great posts from all as usual!!
I'm embarrassed to say it's not been very cheesy here !!!
However my dh bought me some tiger rolls and cheese for lunch today!!
🧀🥳

OP posts:
AliceOlive · 25/02/2024 12:22

Morning! No cheese yesterday except on my Philly cheesesteak and it was the kind where you don’t even see the cheese.

RoyallyRhubarb · 25/02/2024 13:02

Hello. A lovely story about the origin of Stilton cheese popped onto my Facebook page but I can’t find it now to share with you all.

AliceOlive · 25/02/2024 13:19

I’m googling. Now I want Stilton. Trader Joe’s is a great place for imported cheese here in US. Hmm.. driving by there later today. I’ll tell my DH we need to stop for emergency cheese.

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