Page 4 | Omid Scobie Endgame PART 3

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstotheyard · 2023-12-01T10:32:37+00:00

La Pom Pom Girl is doing the Double Dutch. But who is turning the skipping ropes? Part three/trois/drie of the continuing discussion of Endgame by Omid Scobie. Previous thread: [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4951834-omid-scobies-new-book-part-2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4951834-omid-scobies-new-book-part-2]]

BoohooWoohoo · 01/12/2023 13:49

Scobie attended Meghan’s farewell party when she left the UK and was hugged by her. Outdoors is definitely not a room so he’s technically correct but it’s hard to imagine a conversation didn’t happen.

ADX · 01/12/2023 13:50

shockthemonkey · 01/12/2023 12:54

"In the Oprah interview they said Harry was party to a discussion about potential children. Prior to pregnancy and perhaps prior to marriage.

Harry relayed this to Meghan. If it was offensive to him, why would he do that?"

Quite, @AliceOlive - I've always felt that Harry initially thought it was funny or cute... he relayed it to Meghan because, well just because it came out and he thought she might also find it harmless. It was quite possibly then that he was informed of quite how racist it was - that such comments can never be well meant, they are always, always nasty and must be called out.

what would lead anyone to think Harry might have felt it was funny or cute when he said of the conversation
What was that conversation?" Harry replied: "That conversation I'm never going to share, but at the time, at the time, it was awkward. I was a bit shocked."

I keep reading what appear to be dismissals of the context “all families do this” kind of thing, but that doesn’t makes sense when he says he was shocked by what was said .

we are all aware of the racist language Harry has years previously used so him saying he was shocked doesn’t to me suggest ambiguity in what was said in the conversation he addressed

ps Also would be surprised Meghan called Kate a good person if she had said something of the nature to cause offense

BoohooWoohoo · 01/12/2023 13:54

Harry is a self confessed druggie and I wouldn’t trust his recollection of an event tbh
I understand why Meghan would believe him over the rest of the family but they clearly never discussed the skin colour conversation with anyone else until Charles wrote to her. I wonder why the letter wasn’t to both Meghan and Harry?

willWillSmithsmith · 01/12/2023 13:59

ADX · 01/12/2023 13:50

what would lead anyone to think Harry might have felt it was funny or cute when he said of the conversation
What was that conversation?" Harry replied: "That conversation I'm never going to share, but at the time, at the time, it was awkward. I was a bit shocked."

I keep reading what appear to be dismissals of the context “all families do this” kind of thing, but that doesn’t makes sense when he says he was shocked by what was said .

we are all aware of the racist language Harry has years previously used so him saying he was shocked doesn’t to me suggest ambiguity in what was said in the conversation he addressed

ps Also would be surprised Meghan called Kate a good person if she had said something of the nature to cause offense

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There’s nothing to say what he said or felt was actually true though. Was he shocked, how do we know he was just because he says so (or was told to say so). This man has a history of bigoted and racist remarks so I find it hard to believe he was necessarily ‘shocked’.

The problem is you can’t believe or trust a word any of these two say because of their history of lying as easily as breathing.

AliceOlive · 01/12/2023 14:01

ADX · 01/12/2023 13:50

what would lead anyone to think Harry might have felt it was funny or cute when he said of the conversation
What was that conversation?" Harry replied: "That conversation I'm never going to share, but at the time, at the time, it was awkward. I was a bit shocked."

I keep reading what appear to be dismissals of the context “all families do this” kind of thing, but that doesn’t makes sense when he says he was shocked by what was said .

we are all aware of the racist language Harry has years previously used so him saying he was shocked doesn’t to me suggest ambiguity in what was said in the conversation he addressed

ps Also would be surprised Meghan called Kate a good person if she had said something of the nature to cause offense

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I don’t know, I am really grasping because I can’t understand why he would tell Meghan about it. Nor why he’d let her think the title or security was tied to how dark the baby may be. Nor why they would say it was about a “potential” baby then tie it to Archie.

In the Oprah interview Harry also described his family as very welcoming.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 01/12/2023 14:03

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 01/12/2023 11:50

Well, a medieval chronicler called Ailred of Rievalux recounts that Earl Godwin, when accused of the death of Edward the Confessor's brother, declared that if he was guilty may the bread he was about to eat choke him - which it duly did. That was written long after the event so probably Scobie levels of credibility there (not that I'm I'm impugning Ailred).

Can't offhand think of anyone else.

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I think it is more in the nature of a hostage, either to the secular authorities, or to a higher court. So you were saying that if you were lying, your firstborn or whoever could be forfeit.

shockthemonkey · 01/12/2023 14:19

"what would lead anyone to think Harry might have felt it was funny or cute when he said of the conversation
What was that conversation?" Harry replied: "That conversation I'm never going to share, but at the time, at the time, it was awkward. I was a bit shocked."

@ADX , Harry has form for not knowing what to think until somebody has told him what he should think. He also has form for back-tracking, dissimulating, re-writing history. So in this instance... quite possibly he was not initially shocked, until he related the comment to a third party and was told quite how shocked he should have been. Then, in the re-telling, he was intially shocked.

StickyWickets · 01/12/2023 14:25

The reality is that we'll probably never know who H had the actual conversation with and what was ever said.

However, as H downgraded M's racism accusation into 'unconscious bias' and we can only assume that she is in agreement with this downgrade, my guess is that if we ever did the actual truth, it would likely be an enormous storm in a very very tiny teacup

whoamI00 · 01/12/2023 14:25

It seems this is the game they enjoy in some their childish way? Ha

10WildDogs · 01/12/2023 14:29

I have always thought the 'swearing on lives' is an indicator of narcissistic traits. I would never swear on anyone's life - it sort of assumes an ownership of it, something you can use can use as collateral for your word. If I am found to be a liar, I agree the life can be taken.

If you swear on anyone's life it should only be your own as that is the only life you are able to pledge, no one else's

Original poster

Mymilkshakebringsallthepapstotheyard · 01/12/2023 14:39

StickyWickets · 01/12/2023 14:25

The reality is that we'll probably never know who H had the actual conversation with and what was ever said.

However, as H downgraded M's racism accusation into 'unconscious bias' and we can only assume that she is in agreement with this downgrade, my guess is that if we ever did the actual truth, it would likely be an enormous storm in a very very tiny teacup

Well Meghan reputedly has form for throwing teacups! And Harry knows that shards of china can hurt disproportionately. Whatever the actual words were, they have had a massive effect on the RF, because H&M happily kept an accusation of racism hanging over their heads for 2 years and even accepted an award for tackling institutional racism in the RF. This won’t go away now, it’s in the history books. And every time a member of the RF so much as looks in the direction of a person of colour, they are going to be accused of trying to use that person to clean up their racism record. It’s already happening to King Charles with his trip to the Middle East this week.

OP posts:

Crucible · 01/12/2023 14:40

It doesn't make any sense at all - HOW would the Dutch translator know the two names? It is allegedly known widely in journalist circles but I highly doubt this lady knew the names.

They were Clearly In Bloody Print In Front Of Her.

Mylovelygreendress · 01/12/2023 14:57

AliceOlive · 01/12/2023 13:09

Harry, the horse whose mouth it came from, clearly said it was before she was pregnant. So not about Archie.

I think they say it’s about Archie now to make it seem even worse.

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And remember that Meghan suggested that the reason Archie wouldn’t get a title (like the then Cambridge children ) or security was because of him being mixed race . Harry really should have clarified that.,

smilesy · 01/12/2023 15:02

BoohooWoohoo · 01/12/2023 13:49

Scobie attended Meghan’s farewell party when she left the UK and was hugged by her. Outdoors is definitely not a room so he’s technically correct but it’s hard to imagine a conversation didn’t happen.

Aha. So he could have been both “standing up” and “not in a room”. So he wasn’t “sat in a room with them”. So he couldn’t possibly be telling little porky pies about having spoken with them 🤪😂😂

thebellagio · 01/12/2023 15:09

And remember that Meghan suggested that the reason Archie wouldn’t get a title (like the then Cambridge children ) or security was because of him being mixed race . Harry really should have clarified that.,

@Mylovelygreendress and if Oprah wasn't such a hack, she should have challenged Harry on that. It was widely known that the letters patent meant Harry's kids wouldn't inherit a title until Charles was King. The exact same thing would have happened if he'd married Chelsy or Cressida.

Harry had a chance to rectify that to Oprah during the conversation and afterwards, but he chose not to. He WANTED the world to think that racism was at play, even if nothing ever had been said....

I don't blame Meghan for not understanding it. She was new to the Firm. But H absolutely would have know the case. It would have been known his entire life - and I suspect he also would have been in agreement with it, remember when they first said Archie wasn't going to be a prince, nearly everyone thought it was their decision, and a good decision at that. So, what changed?

BethDuttonsTwin · 01/12/2023 15:13

In the Oprah interview Harry also described his family as very welcoming.

They both did in the engagement interview too. Meghan couldn’t have appeared happier in that interview and hadn’t the alleged convo taken place before that? In fact the only time anyone seemed unhappy was when they went to Africa with Archie where it was apparently tantrums all round. I do think that much of the anger around these allegations and the Oprah interview is that they were such a huge shock to the public at large. There were little pockets of racism, I’d never deny it but the majority loved and welcomed Meghan and were very excited about her joining the RF. We saw it at the wedding, the nearly all positive press - I note that only one 7 year old story has been dredged up on these threads of evidence of racism in the press towards M. I actually went to Kensington Palace with friends the day as I couldn’t face the crowds at Windsor and we all drank champagne and toasted them. There was such well wishes towards them.

I don’t believe there was nasty racism aimed at Archie, I never have and I never will. I think completely blameless comments have been twisted and used and had the absolute worst slant applied to them in order for H & M to justify leaving as they did. I have a family member who is similar and it is so clear to me. The worrying thing is people who do this actually believe it themselves. I have to wonder if there is other stuff that shows M & H not to be entirely blameless overall and this constant focus on “racism” is to keep eyes away from that. They know the RF will never talk and so they’re pushing and pushing because they are getting away with it. In my own experience, giving enough rope and Grey Rocking is the only effective strategy but it really does take a long time which is hard to bear.

AliceOlive · 01/12/2023 15:19

Mylovelygreendress · 01/12/2023 14:57

And remember that Meghan suggested that the reason Archie wouldn’t get a title (like the then Cambridge children ) or security was because of him being mixed race . Harry really should have clarified that.,

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Really quite cruel of him not to have done so.

wordler · 01/12/2023 15:25

AliceOlive · 01/12/2023 15:19

Really quite cruel of him not to have done so.

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Don't forget that interview was heavily edited. There was apparently a lot of unshown footage - not that I do think Harry made an effort to explain the letters patent but he might have and it might have been cut by Oprah's editors.

IcedPurple · 01/12/2023 15:28

I don't blame Meghan for not understanding it. She was new to the Firm. But H absolutely would have know the case.

But if random folks like you or I can find out this information with 2 minutes on the interwebs, why couldn't Meghan?

As for Harry, I think it's increasingly clear that he has no clue about royal traditions, even though he was born into them. In fact, I'd struggle to think of anything that Harry has a clue about.

AliceOlive · 01/12/2023 15:32

wordler · 01/12/2023 15:25

Don't forget that interview was heavily edited. There was apparently a lot of unshown footage - not that I do think Harry made an effort to explain the letters patent but he might have and it might have been cut by Oprah's editors.

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I really mean in general, that she should never have been left to think that even for a moment.

I also re-watched the part where Meghan described feeling suicidal and Harry told her she should just stay home. She said she could not be left alone. So he took her along. I mean - WTF!?. Your pregnant wife is experiencing a grave crisis and you tell her to get dressed and go out for a photo op?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/12/2023 15:32

The vagueness of the allegation makes it impossible to know what was said to who, when, what about and with what intention. And that is all the fault of the Sussexes for not being clear in the first place and letting the matter drag on, with commentary from 3rd parties filling in the considerable gaps

Nail on head, OP

YourNameGoesHere · 01/12/2023 15:33

IcedPurple · 01/12/2023 15:28

I don't blame Meghan for not understanding it. She was new to the Firm. But H absolutely would have know the case.

But if random folks like you or I can find out this information with 2 minutes on the interwebs, why couldn't Meghan?

As for Harry, I think it's increasingly clear that he has no clue about royal traditions, even though he was born into them. In fact, I'd struggle to think of anything that Harry has a clue about.

Indeed. I always wonder this when people say things like she didn't know XYZ not only is this stuff all easily found out by a quick Google but didn't she also have access to people she could have asked, whose literal job it was to help her understand this stuff?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 01/12/2023 15:33

Words · 01/12/2023 13:34

I tried to read some of the first chapter posted on the last thread. It's not only excruciatingly bad- the most purple of purple prose - but also gauche. Like a sixth former trying to impress with lots of adjectives and irrelevant padding.

This whole scandal is disgraceful. Making these vague allusions to racist comments is contemptible.

For what it's worth I think the suggestion that a pre final version was being worked on by the translators and somehow the final edits never made it to them feels about right.

Scobie splits hairs when in a tight spot as we know. Maybe he did not 'submit the manuscript' containing the names, but someone else may well have done on his behalf.

My theory is that his version had titles rather than names- the King and the Princess of Wales rather than Charles and Kate - and he is using that to convince himself he’s not lying when he says there were no names.
I agree, splitting hairs is exactly what he does.

IcedPurple · 01/12/2023 15:37

YourNameGoesHere · 01/12/2023 15:33

Indeed. I always wonder this when people say things like she didn't know XYZ not only is this stuff all easily found out by a quick Google but didn't she also have access to people she could have asked, whose literal job it was to help her understand this stuff?

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Didn't she also whine about how nobody thought her to sing 'God Save the Queen'? Even though the lyrics are readily available on the internet? And 5 year old Louis has no trouble singing it?

And yes, I'm certain she had staff assigned to teach her the ropes. The royals learned from Diana that even an aristocrat had trouble adjusting to royal life, so I'm sure they were eager to prepare Meghan as much as possible.

It reminds me of something said by one of those interviewed in the 'Courtiers' book. Their mistake was in thinking Harry and Meghan wanted to be happy, when from the start they had other ideas.

BoohooWoohoo · 01/12/2023 15:38

IcedPurple · 01/12/2023 15:28

I don't blame Meghan for not understanding it. She was new to the Firm. But H absolutely would have know the case.

But if random folks like you or I can find out this information with 2 minutes on the interwebs, why couldn't Meghan?

As for Harry, I think it's increasingly clear that he has no clue about royal traditions, even though he was born into them. In fact, I'd struggle to think of anything that Harry has a clue about.

If Meghan really declined Sophie as a mentor because she thought Harry would be a better mentor then she must realise by now that it was a big mistake.
Should they split, “Harry sabotaged things by not helping me “ would make a good reason for things working out badly because nobody knows how helpful he was. Harry had 2 long term girlfriends dump him because of the media- maybe he minimised how bad the media was so Meghan would stay?