Kate Hate

[MamoruHisaishi]

I came across some old threads in other forums and also articles where Catherine was being criticized for being lazy, dumb, overrated, a gold digger and called all sorts of names. There were even threads that questioned why people disliked her so much, and multiple pages of replies stating why she was so disliked. I am wondering why this seems to have now been forgotten, even if Meghan became the new media target, why is it hardly mentioned the amount of hate and vitriol that Catherine went through?

Of course. But that doesn’t mean I can deduct racist motives. If something isn’t antisemitic on its own, isn’t any kind of antisemitic trope, I can’t say that it’s still racist because I’m a Jew and I can tell someone is motivated by anti-Jewish hate. The current unhelpful ideology has definitely been imported from the USA. If someone doesn’t like Meghan, well then I disagree, she seems lovely to me, but there’s a million possible reasons someone could say that.

Seriously do you honestly think that black people are running around calling people racist because someone says that they don’t like Meghan? Is that what you think is happening? And what exactly has been imported from the states? Telling people of the roots of some of their words and expressions? The refusal of black and brown people to stop speaking up when they see things and be quiet? George Alagiah died yesterday and deep in his story is the racism he experienced and the compressing of many aspects of his identity down to how he said his name that many of us today absolutely refuse to do anymore. Is that it? I personally like to know where things come from and why saying things might be problematic- I have had no trouble excising language from my vernacular and learning about why certain ideas might lead down unsavoury paths because of the underlying premises that support them. I have learned this through people from marginalised groups saying hey! what was just said was (insert bigotry here). I have then stopped my natural inclination to say (no it’s not) and listened to people explain why it is. You have stopped at - nope no problem here stop imagining things or if I read you correctly you’re saying nope it’s not a problem because they are a sweet lovely person who didn’t mean it and so we shouldn’t tell them that they’ve caused offence. And let them keep doing it too. I would suggest you re read the thread - many people have tried to explain it to you.

Hohohogreenjennie · 23/07/2023 18:42
@RitzyMcFitzy didnt Harry hint at that in his book? That it was Camilla and her team that were responsible for putting the negative stories about him out when he was a teenager to rehabilitate hers and Charles’ reputation.

And he recounts a time when William came to him in a rage shouting that she had done something similar to him (this is towards the end of the his time with the royal family) and that she had gone too far this time and that he was planning on doing something about it (but by this point Harry had had enough with it all and was rising above it).

Harry put it in his book? Something that reflects badly on Camilla and William?
Well, of course it must be true - Harry never exaggerates or downright lies does he?

I don’t think there’s much point continuing. I’ve re-read my posts and don’t think I left any space for sincere misunderstanding, so rather than go round and round re-enacting the same argument that ends up happening on every single thread on the RF board, let’s just stop it there. The topic was hate against Kate!

The topic might be hate against Kate, but it was started primarily to have a pop at Meghan. That much is obvious.

It's all about Meghan and trying to spin it that Kate had it just as bad, if not worse.

the problem with this thread is that the op says they have looked at other forums.
its not really relevant as most people talk about what happens on mumsnet
I don't do twitter or trawl the internet, so it just about mumsnet for me. and to say that Kate gets hate on here is untrue imo.
the occasional thread might be started, but there will always be a derail to bash Meghan,
or oh well other royal incomers had it bad too, as if somehow that makes it ok.
it doesn't

I’m not British but I am interested in the phenomenon that is being discussed here—and it is a phenomenon not a natural feature of the social world. The expressed attitudes of posters towards members of the royal family and specifically the young, in married, women are largely manufactured. People, perhaps sincerely, think they are simply expressing their real/own feelings but who they identify with, whether they champion Kate or Meghan, the very idea that each “represents” or appeals to different sectors is largely manufactured for clicks, eyeballs, and money.

The British press and various components of the heavily monetized influencer/online actors make money selling eyeballs to advertisers. They make money whether its hate clicks or love clicks but its easier to sell hate and you clearly need less access or real info to continually sell bitchy, warmed over, gossip.

Anyone looking critically at the coverage of Meghan and Kate would instantly recognize the obvious fact that the press has routinely built up the royal girlfriends, torn them down, and sometimes rebuilt them. This manufactured storyline is no different than the “kayfabe” storylines of the WWE. Sometimes the princess is a “face” or heroine, sometimes she is a “heel.” The manufactured storyline creates fans and anti fans and both can be easily stimulated and manipulated.

Because racism is a natural feature if British society (as all others) and classism snd anti american ressentiment it is easy for the viewer to get sucked into a fantasy infotainment, a serialized, in the press, story of Kate vs Meghan and white vs black. Kate’s fans naturally deny that their passionate anti Meghan attitudes are based in racist tropes, spread racist propaganda and attitudes, and continually remind non white viewers and citizens that they can never be part of the Royal family. But every fable has its moral and that is the moral of this one.

Absolute piffle. Meghan could have been a key member of the rf, but she and Harry blew it - a fact that I think they are now much regretting.

There may be a couple of idiotic fan forums - SussexSquad and Kate fans, but I have never seen hatred/racism on other sites - just banter and memes and perhaps mean schadenfreude, but nothing which condemns every member of the UK.

The topic was hate against Kate!

Yes it was and someone gave their perspective as a black british person on how both Meghan and Kate recived similar criticisms but that Meghan had the extra side serving of race. They also spoke about the hypocrisy and the selective outrage on behalf of the press and stated that the racism specifically on MN was signficant and gave examples of this. You then came in and said that you felt that there were american activists who wanted to drag everything into "the whole weird US race thing that’s going on". There is a reason I am not tagging you - think on why that is? I saw you and your argument coming a mile off - see page 3. I understand you perfectly.

@pikkumyy77

Great post from you.

There is also a need in the media for there to be a “narrative” which is not how real life works. Being on the ascendence or self-destructing are the most common ones about celebrities. So they don’t report on stories as isolated incidents but as part of grand narratives. In terms of negative narratives, the negative narratives that have formed about the Sussexes tend to be personal whereas the negative narratives about the rest of the family (with the exception of Andrew) are less personal and more about the monarchy itself.

I used to work in local news (a million years ago) and it’s not just reporting things as they happen, often on their own the stories are not very important, but if you combine a series of events and make patterns, that makes it relevant. Like the residents of Road A being angry the street is full of dogshit is not actually that exciting for anyone other than the residents, but if it ties into a bigger narrative about the general decline of the city or a failing council it gets more interest.

Similarly for Harry and Meghan it ties into a lot of narratives that consumers in particular love - stories of people getting too big for their boots, class, rich vs poor, the culture wars, race, hypocrisy (this is really acutely a British phenomenon where being hypocritical about X is often punished more than X itself).

The media doesn’t necessarily create the narratives and people like H&M will hire very expensive people to try and shape them. The media is as beholden to supply & demand as any other industry. H&M often don’t help themselves though. It’s a show don’t tell deal.

I would agree with most of the above post—very well expressed! Except for the assertion that the media don’t create narratives. There absolutely is such a thing as corporate and editorial lines. Newspapers and tv shows have brands and push absolutely recognizable narratives on their customer base. No one needs a logo to tell them that a story appears in the Mirror, The Daily mail, or the guardian. One knows at once that stories will be reported with a particular slant. That increases brand loyalty and increases income. Journalists are hired to fulfill these narratives.

I probably expressed myself badly, the media is definitely part of the ecosystem but they are not acting in isolation. It’s also not necessarily sinister. Usually the people reporting aren’t trying to trick people into believing something that is completely wild - they sincerely believe that e.g. X is a bit of a prick or the council is rubbish or Area Boss is corrupt, and think the public should know about it (which is often why they became journalists in the first place!). H&M haven’t really helped themselves, not sure if they’ve been getting bad advice or not listening to it. The best journalists in the world couldn’t get you to believe Harry was a bit self-absorbed if he didn’t keep supplying evidence.

I see the I never see racism line has been trotted out. Even though there is lots of racism on MN and threads about Meghan have been deleted due to the large number of racist comments.

I wouldn’t go there, I have been personally threatened by other posters on here that I would be reported to Mumsnet if I ever referred to previous incidents of racism which have been deleted.

I only joined Mumsnet recently so can't speak to the history of comments here. I used to be on Twitter and read first hand vile things about many royals, and the extreme Catherine/Meghan supporters are awful on there, far worse than anything here.

Reading this thread I am not sure if it is possible to say that one person had it worse than another. I remember the stuff said about Anne, Diana, Sarah Sophie, Catherine and Meghan. (The advent of social media has definitely lowered the bar on what people say about others in public.) It was and is all awful and it is a culture I think needs addressing. I can't see Catherine and Meghan sitting reading what their so-called fans say about the other person on Twitter and being in any way pleased by it. I hope that neither of them really know what is said about them because it is disgusting.

The reason I don't think I can say that one person had it worse than someone else is that the impact on an individual of vile rumours, lies, attacks, threats etc is personal to them and I don't think it makes it easier if it were me under attack to think to myself, well at least it wasn't X. When you are targeted personally it is awful and it doesn't make it less awful if someone else has been targeted differently. The effect on the individual is something that only they know and I feel it minimises their experience to compare it to another's.

I am not trying to minimise or suggest that racism isn't a stressful way to think and behave though. Racism is vile and should be called out whenever it happens (Princess Michael of Kent I'm thinking of you). Racist attacks are morally worse than calling someone lazy. All I am saying is that if you are targeted by the media it is dreadful and I think getting into a war of comparisons in some ways can lead to certain people thinking they can be rude, as long as they aren't racist. So someone can spout rubbish, eg saying Meghan/Catherine wasn't pregnant, or Meghan is killing avocadoes (can't remember what that was about)but they think they are ok because they aren't being being racist. It isn't ok because it is hurtful and divisive.

I wish that someone would take action, raise the bar and stop the lies and the insults. It must be dreadful being in the public eye, royal or not.

I don't think Meghan's treatment and Kate's treatment can be compared because the way the media is today is completely different to what it was in the 2000s. Kate's haters were mostly the printed press, royal blogs and the used to get mobbed by paparazzis a lot and today, she does get a lot hate on social media mostly from unhinged people creating crazy rumours about her life, from her marriage to people attacking the children, to her family, to people creating rumours about her body,her mental state... it's a lot. Someone explained it to me perfectly: Kate has never really put a foot wrong since entering the RF. She's a perfectionist so a lot of people would really love to see her fall and lose control.

Meghan got on the scene in 2016. At that time, because of the emergence of smartphones and the rise of social media, I would say that most of her haters are online. The era where famous people would get mobbed by 20-30 photographers doesn't really exist anymore (unless you're a huge star). Anyone with a smartphone can be a paparazzi nowadays.

As I said, I think the vast majority of the hate comes from social media because most of England don't hate her like so many people like to believe. Social media don't represent all of us. For example, only 18% of the UK population are on Twitter and only 8% are on Tiktok which is where, I've noticed, are the places where both Kate and Meghan get the most hate. Most people here don't spend their whole day hating on her. As I said before, other than her supporters, her haters, royal watchers and the press, most people here don't really care.
Meghan obviously went through some racism in the press but I would say, as someone who's on most social media platforms, a lot of the full blown racism that I see from time to time is on social media and sadly I'm not really surprised because the way all of these platforms "deal with" racism is just ridiculous. So many people I know got racially abused and nothing happens after these accounts get reported. These CEO like Elon Musk and Zuckerberg definitely need to do more. This is way bigger than Meghan.

Though, what H, M and mostly their supporters need to understand is that there will always be gossip about them. Not only are they known worldwide but they have transitioned from being royals to being celebrities. No matter who they are, there's always going to be gossip about them. Just last week, there were rumours that H&M had separated. That same publication posted on the same day that Gwen Stefani and Gavin were having marital issues yet they were seen days later looking as happy as ever with their children. Whether it's the British press or American press, there will always be gossip and that royal family feud sells which is why the press need this feud to go on as long as possible while both parties are probably just not talking to each other but nothing toxic.

I have to say that I don’t know how Kate and other royals are doing it. I doubt they spend their all day sitting at home, reading what people have to say about them and for the royal advisors to always tell the family to never respond, I would have a mental breakdown if I couldn't correct every ridiculous story that is out there about me. I don't know how Kate does it

I think you are mucking about here @LadyMuckingabout .

While it is clear that all women marrying into the royal family are subjected to the most atrocious public humiliation, it is undeniable that Meghan Markle had a sustained, unhinged, nasty, vendictive, irrational, racist, classist, and sexist campaign against thrown against her.

The main perpetrators of this were middle aged, white men - Murdock, Clarkson, that Kiwi fool from GB News and Piers Morgan.

If you only saw just banter and memes and perhaps mean schadenfreude, then you were clearly not living here during that time.

Absolutely. This is safe to click (it's just a picture I have taken from the DW thread) ... it's more than a montage... it's a wallpaper of that kiwi fool Dan Wootton hate tweets about Meghan and Harry.
Prepare to be shocked.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1xZ49eWcAE6B9O?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

I am not going to compare with Kate. It is different times but the hate for her is out of control.

I’ve blown up your wall of hate. These were the first few I found. Please explain to me why they are so shocking.

Well done for finding that one. I have clicked 10 times on others. All derogatory. Look harder

Wow, that link is shows how truly unhinged he is. And he is not the only one. Proper reporters with platforms are like this about her. I think GB news has several daily spots dedicated to bashing MM - I don't think any other royal has ever had that.

i can’t post any more pictures as the screen shots as they’re more than 6mb so won’t upload, but hardly ‘shocking’

I don’t go on Twitter but I’ve seen far worse screen shots

Why don’t you head back to the Dan Wootton thread.

Do keep clicking. I can't do screenshots of them all. But it is bad.

I am amazed you don't think so. But of course you would support Dan Wootton in his hate of Meghan.